Responding to yet another innocuous, bland, be-all, umbrella organization:

C wrote:
The following is the Statement of Faith of a new, national
congregationalist Pagan church. As the National Coordinator, I am
seeking input from the general Pagan community in reaction to this
Statement. I thank you for your time and interest and am looking
forward to any suggestions you may have to make.

I respond
Yanno, this is the first time I've heard of a Pagan group soliciting
input from the general Pagan community for its creation. Why? Are
you hoping to recruit membership from other Pagan groups? Are you
hoping we'll "see the light" and convert to your brand of Paganism?
That what it sounds like.

C shared:
1) We, the individual members and member congregations of the World
Temple Alliance, Inc., a nonprofit Corporation, also known as The
United Pagan Temples of America, founded in 2003, acknowledge the
gods of our ancestors; holding them in awe and offering them
reverence.
2) (snipped for brevity...
3) " " "
4) " " ")

I respond:
That's cool for your group. What does that have to do with Asatruar,
Numenism, Dianics, Dianetics, Blue Star, Gardnerian Wicca, et al?
Your "common concern for ethical behavior and
community development" sounds all spiffy, but exactly what ethics?
What community development? You need to spell out exactly what your
ethics are so we can see if they jive with ours. And what if your
community needs are different? And number 4....I dunno. We
Numenists can't quite agree with that. We're not of the "all is One"
group of Pagans, not even really with our concept of Dea Nutrix,
because we allow for the possibility of multiple Dea Nutrices.

C shares:
5) Further, we acknowledge that we cannot know all the faces or
aspects of the God(s), so we refrain from judgment of the faith of
others.

I respond:
Why? We judge the Al Queda, the Muslims who fight in Iraq, the
Christians, the fluffies, restaurants, other community organizations,
each other. Making judgements is a part of who and what humans are -
if we didn't make judgements, we would never be able to make
decisions. We'd be standing in the toothpaste aisle, frozen in
contemplation of the 350 varieties of toothpaste until our bodies
decayed (now there's an image for all those Wal-Mart shoppers!). You
make it sound as if judgment is a bad thing.

C shares:
6) Further, we come together, singularly or with others, to worship
as individuals and as congregations, to worship our Gods in different
ways and with respect for the ancient Mysteries that reveal the
faces of the Gods to those who worship Them.

And:

7) Further, when we gather together as a worshipful congregation, we
may be known by many different names and among those names are coven,
circle, grove, temple and many others besides. And in our worship, as
a symbol of our new life in our faith, we, as individuals, may take
on various faith names to demonstrate our devotion.

I respond:
Sounds like you haven't decided on a format for your new church.
That makes it hard to form judgements, make informed decisions, and
recruit with knowledge. Or perhaps that you are trying really hard
to be all things to all people.

C shares:
8) Further, we create this union of equal congregants and
congregations to bring a sense of unity, harmony, and support to our
individual members as well as member congregations across the United
States.

I respond:
This sounds so nifty and lofty, but the words are hollow. Numenists
aren't equal to other religions, our individual Houses aren't even
equal to one another. Some religions are probably much better than
we are, certainly they are better in different areas. And since we
have different needs and foci, it only follows we can't possibly
be "equal", and not even really "equivalent". Equal implies
interchangeable, especailly as it seems to be used here.

C shares:
9) Further, we come together to increase cooperation among Neo-Pagans
and between ourselves and those who follow other paths.

I respond:
Now this is finally beginning to reach outside the private bonds of a
specific religion. How do you propose to do this? What specific
goals do you have in mind? What issues do you feel need to be
addressed? And most overwhelmingly of all, on what issues do you
feel all Pagans should cooperate? And extrapolate those issues out
to non-Pagans - on what interfaithing issues do you feel all people
(which is what you're saying whether you mean it or not) should
cooperate?

C shares:
10) Further, we come together to secure legal protection and
recognition for our members as well as nonmember Neo-Pagans.

I respond:
Precisely what legal protections and recognitions are you meaning?
We already have sufficient legal protections for being Pagan, all
we have to do is take advantage of what's there. It seems rather
wasteful to force legislation for one religion at the expense of
other religions. As for recognition, so long as we recognize our
own, why do we have to shove recognition down the throats of all
other Americans? The laws and the US Constitution already allow us
to ordain our own priests and ministers, to provide chaplain and
ministerial care to our own people, to officiate at our own religious
rites (marriage being the sole exception, and that primarily because
it involves taxes, property, and the lives and welfare of potential
children, and even at that, it's a simple enough matter to register
for officiating at weddings in every state - their requirements are
the same for all religions, they don't require anything special or
extra of Pagans). It's only when priests and ministers and such
step outside their roles as priests, and ministers that specific
recognitions are required, such as certifications proving education
in certain counseling fields - and the laws don't discriminate
between religions for this certification - anyone can get what's
needed if they're willing to take the coursework and tests and earn
the certification.

So, I'm at a loss as to what recognition is sought.

I would like to see an elucidation of this point.

C shares:
11) Further, we come together to do all within our power to raise the
educational level of our clergy as well as the general Pagan
populace, so that our clergy may better serve our member
congregations and our community and its members can reach a better
understanding of themselves, their needs, and our collective future.

I respond:
Hold on here! This sounds good if you leave out the "as well as the
general Pagan populace". As part of that "general Pagan populace",
we already have our own forms and methods of certification,
education, and ordination of our clergy and members, and are quite
capable of providing for our membership. We have our own charity and
community projects in place. We don't need you sticking your finger
into our pie, and telling us how we should educate our celebrants and
priests and ministers and Elders. The way you've phrased this implies that our educational and certification methods should be "standardized" to meet your group's requirements. I don't think so. Not by a long shot. You are also implying that our celebrants need your help in understanding themselves and theri needs, and this is just so much nanny-crap. I'm sorry, but we don't need or want any group telling us what we need.

C shares:
12) Further, we are constantly mindful that the Mystery is personal
and all members respect the autonomy and sovereignty of each member,
as well as the right of each congregation to oversee the spiritual,
mental, emotional and physical development of its members and
students in its own way. This extends to a recognition that secrecy
plays a vital role in many traditional paths, and as members of the
United Pagan Temples of America we shall respect those secrets as
we respect the Mystery.

I respond:
This contradicts the goals of #11. You can't have it both ways.
Either you are a leading organization with a following group, with
well-defined and codified rules and regulations in place for your
membership, or you're some sort of wishy-washy organization that in
attempting to be all to all, leave yourselves open to predation and
abuse. What protections do you have in place to keep out charming
con artists? How do you propose to protect small groups
(congregations) from being manipulated and misled into ways that are
not ones you want? And please, don't say "all ways are acceptable",
because chances are, I can name a dozen that would curl your toes and
make you run the other way.

C shares:
13) Further, we recognize that underlying all of our interaction is
the clear understanding of and respect for both the unity and the
diversity of the spiritual paths of our members while accepting that
even in our breadth we cannot meet the needs of all. But to those who
do not find a home with us, we still leave open an offer of support.

I respond:
Fine words, but what do they really mean? You've said at every point
so far that you are attempting to be all to everyone, yet here you
contradict those previous statements. And exactly what sort of
support do you propose? Vague words and sweeping statements of the
sort made throughout these points all sound lofty and noble, but lack
any real substance.

I'd say I couldn't possibly be interested in an organization that
can't commit itself, that can't make a firm decision on what it is
and believes. We don't need yet another innocuous, be-all, umbrella
organization. What we need is a strong voice that says what it
believes, and allows a like-minded flock to rally to that voice. Then,
then those strong-voiced, committed organizations can work together
on common goals, and on their own for their own special goals.

I would suggest creating the group you want to be a member of, one
that would make you proud, that had a set goal and specific
guidelines. Vagueness is all well and good when conducting evasion
maneuvers; is that what you want people to think when they read this,
that you are evading solid issues for specious rhetoric.

posted by Noddy at 4:07 PM

21 Pagan Legal Issues

1. Cloning - Pagans need to think how cloning will affect their beliefs, and how they will deal with the issues cloning will raise. Inheritance issues, lineage issues, tax exemptions, religious concepts, and such only touch the tip of the iceberg here. Once Pagans (and remember, I'm not talking unified, We-are-one, action here) know how they feel about cloning, and where it stands in their beliefs, then they need to keep an eye on the legislation for it, and take appropriate action.

2. Blue Laws - I spent some time (years) in Texas, where it was illegal to buy not only alcohol, but things like tools and toys, from 11:59 pm Saturday to 12:01 am Monday. I remember aisles in the stores roped off to remind shoppers not to select any of those particular items. Since these particular laws were enacted primarily out of consideration for one particular type of religion, I feel this is a proper Pagan issue. I know the laws aren't as strict in other places (and maybe they aren't in Texas anymore, I haven't shopped there in years), so perhaps it is a non-issue in a lot of places. Still, for those states that do still carry Blue Laws on the books (and enforces them), it is an issue that is worthy of Pagan consideration. Why? Because these laws were written solely for the purpose of forcing the people to obey a specific religion's dictates. The religion didn't even trust their own adherents to obey these dictates, so they forced the law to do what they couldn't: prevent their adherents from buying certain things on the day they set aside to be holy. No other religion distrusted their adherents that much. Now, I see nothing wrong with a company choosing to close on the day the owner considers holy. That is a business and personal descision. But to force laws into existence that makes other shop owners close on the same day is wrong. If the only reason the shops are being forced to close is religious, then the law is wrong, and we need to work to abolish it.

3. Adoption - I've adopted 6 children (all adults now), and it wasn't as easy as if I'd been Christian. Of course, none of them were babies, and that made a tremendous difference. The need for babies and children to have parents is so great, I feel a little thing like marital status or religion should not be placed as a block to adoption. Abusive background and such, yes, those should be investigated and considered, but not marriage or religion. This one could even be one of the few universal issues for all Pagans to unite behind - and even here, I'm not too sure. Perhaps there are Pagans who feel religion or marital status should have equal weight with a criminal background or a history of child abuse. If so, I've never met any.

4. Family Structure (marriage) - I've long advocated that marital partnerships should be changed, that the laws limiting marriage need to be modernized. Does it matter how many consenting adults are in the relationship, or their genders? All the government should worry about is the taxes, and if a marriage is set up like any other business partnership, with provisions for property, children, income, and dissolution of the partnership fully outlined, then that's the end of governmental concern. From there, religion takes over, and it is the religion that determines who marries and how.

5. Taxes used for promoting religion - The 10 Commandments prominently displayed in government office lobbies, Christian Bibles as school textbooks, tax-funded Christian crèche scenes, zoning regulations for religious institutions that differ radically depending on religion, preference given to Christian clergy for paid clergy positions in the prisons and military services - those aren't just Pagan issues, but issues facing anyone of a non-Christian religion. Our tax dollars should not fund any religious activity. If the religion lacks the money they need to fund their endeavors, perhaps they ought to reconsider what they seek to accomplish, not demand money from people who don't subscribe to their beliefs. Military clergy should be funded by the religions, not the military, as should prison clergy, and hospital clergy, police clergy. If the religion can't support a clergy, it needs to rethink its purpose. Tax dollars are supposed to support the citizens of the country, not special interest groups.

6. Christian prayers to open government meetings - we are a country of diverse religious beliefs. Why are our government meetings opened by the blessings of only one religion?

7. Nudity - Because we are a country of diverse ethnic and religious backgrounds, attempting to impose a single standard on everyone is burdensome. In some cultures, it's considered normal for small children to run around naked. Familial nudity is the norm in some places and among some cultures and religions. Nudity in one's home or on one's land alone is not an indication of child abuse, rape, or other damaging acts. There shouldn't be laws regulating how people dress (or not) in their own homes and on private land. I don't know of any religion which requires their adherents to be nude at all times, but there are religions that incorporate nudity at some point. Laws that forbid nudity at all times are restrictive and burdensome and serve no public purpose. Now, in public, where there are varying degrees of comfort levels among those present, I think we should make concessions in clothing, a minimal degree of modesty.

8. Fortune Telling Laws - I don't participate in fortune telling events, so I'll leave that to those who do. I'm all for reducing government interference in private events - and I feel fraud laws already take care of the con artists and criminals. We don't need laws that specifically address fortune telling. What we do need are laws that better identify what constitutes fraud, and a stricter enforcement of those laws, not laws that target a specific activity.

9. Healing Laws - Oh. I'm so torn on this one. As a trained medical herbalist, I don't want just anyone practicing herbal medicine. It takes a long time to learn it, and you can't do it just from books - especially ones that rehash the same out of date information from Culpeper's Herbal. However, things like reiki (therapeutic touch, etc.), crystal therapy, chakra alignments, etc, shouldn't be anymore regulated than granny's chicken soup. This is an issue that is a Pagan one, but will have many different sides.

10. Zoning Laws - Arg! This one is so frustrating - and should rightly be an issue for anyone of any religious persuasion, and not just Pagans! It's not fair that a Christian church can be in one location, and when they sell their property, it can't be sold to any other religion. It has to become a secular business or a private home, but the Muslims can't convert it to a mosque, or the Jews to a synagogue, or the Pagans to a temple. However, if a synagogue goes on the market, a Christian congregation can snap it up and convert it to a church. This may be different in other parts of the country, so I may just be blowing smoke here. Zoning laws need to apply equally and equitably, not for discriminatory purposes, expecially when it comes to religious property. If it was a church before, why shouldn't it be a mosque when the church outgrows the property and sells it?

11. Sacred Knife Laws - I've never had a problem with this one, but I've heard about it from other people. Of course, being related to practically half the law enforcement in the tri-state area could be a factor here. I don't see this as an issue. However, like the zoning regulations, it may be an issue for other Pagans located elsewhere. If there are laws that restrict the free exercise of one's beliefs - and you've gotten the proper permits - then those are laws that need revamping. I can see this being an issue in public parks, where the sword and athames are used by Wiccans and Wiccaesque groups, and the like.

12. The Illusion of Freedom of Choice - Take, for example, the recently enacted laws that prevent people from buying OTC allergy medications over the counter - prescriptions are now required, and you have to give your name and address to buy antihistamines. Laws are being enacted that constantly reduce our freedoms, like the other recent law which prevents adults from sitting in public parks unless they are accompanied by another adult or a child. In other words, it's now illegal for me to go to the park to eat my lunch quietly by myself. Worse still are the insidious events that reduce your choices without your conscious awareness of them: the homogenation of store brands and even of stores themselves across the US, the lack of certain products' availability (mixed-fruit jams and jellies, as one example), an either/or set of choices, with no third alternative (as in you either spend the big bucks for Direct TV, or you're stuck watching a hamster run in its wheel). Even though this isn't specifically a religious issue, it is a Pagan issue, because choice is how many of us became Pagan.

13. Insurance and Hospital Rights- Many Pagans have built families that aren't blood related. Many hospitals prevent all but legal relatives (by blood or by law) from visiting a patient in critical care (just the place where I'd want _my_ House supporting me). And many insurance companies refuse to cover alternative treatments many Pagans prefer to seek - acupuncture, herbalism, etc.

14. Spiritual Survival - This isn't necessarily a legal issue, but it could be, given the Bush administration concentration on distributing _our_ tax dollars to Faith-based charities (so far excluding Pagan ones, but then, that may also be because few Pagan charities have sought these tax dollars). Still, it is an issue when money is taken away from us that we could use to support our own religions and given to someone else's religion. That can put a real crimp in our survival and growth. Unlike the tax issue raised above, this one is geared more towards internal matters, in strengthening our religions so this sort of adversity doesn't cripple them out of existence.

15. Abundance and Poverty - Many people may not see this as a Pagan legal issue, but when taxes overburden people of any degree of wealth, it is. Taxes are an essential in any large group of people to pay for mutually beneficial services, such as roads, utilities, and dispute resolutions. But it's ridiculous when the average person pays more than 45% of their income in taxes - not just income taxes, but the "hidden" taxes such as sales, property, ad valorem, and so forth. Much of this tax income is wasted on frivolous items, and I persoanlly detest the fact that our legislators feel they have a right to spend our money as they please. It's our duty to supervise our elected employees and make sure they are benefitting _us_, not themselves and their pet projects. Their "trickle down" theory of wealth doesn't work. It log jams in their pockets.

16. Pagan Charities - This may not be a legal issue per se, Pagan charities will exist with or without legal help, in spite of laws making it more difficult. But, as part of a group who are trying to create a homeless resource and help cneter, we've spent _years_ creating ways we can cope with all the various laws and regulations that will allow us to do so. Without all those laws, we could have had this charity in place 3 years ago. We've finally revamped it to occur in multiple stages, starting with what we hope will be the primary fundraiser for it: a bakery/coffeehouse/soup kitchen. It will, because of laws, take us 8 years to get it fully operational, after the bakery is opened. We need to work on streamlining these laws to make it easier for small groups to organize and fund more ambitious charities.

17. Existing Pagan Rights - This is actually an internal matter. So few Pagans are aware of their legal rights. I've seen and heard Pagans trash police because they believe (wrongly) that the police will arrest them simply for being Pagan. There's a young man in my state that seriously and sincerely believes that if he lets it be known he's Pagan, the Christians will kill him - and get away with it. I've seen Pagans arrested and scream "religious persecution" when in reality, if they'd simply taken a few legal precautions: getting a free permit to use a park after curfew hours, paying the use fee for a picnic shelter, alerting the fire department to the use of a bonfire - and securing the permit for it, that sort of thing, they would have completed their ceremonies and rituals in peace - and even had the protection of the police in case of disruptive hecklers.

18. Sacrifice - Although Santeria has had a few ground-breaking cases that allow for religious slaughter of animals (based on the previous Jewish and Muslim requirements for religous slaughter in their kosher and halal laws), I haven't seen any other Pagan groups challenge the laws. I understand that many Pagan groups eschew religious slaughter, even though they eat meat. So far, I personally haven't had any problems with ritual sacrifice of the critters I hunt and consume (mostly ducks, squirrels, and fish), we should be aware that laws could be created which would limit our abilities to comply with our religious needs.

19. Pagan Bullies, Trolls, Manes - Not necessarily a strictly Pagan issue, witness the nasty Zero Tolerance laws at our schools, and increasingly in the workplace. Yes, we need to effectively limit the range of people who truly are bullies, but not at the expense of condemning innocents. Really, is a 5 year old a criminal for bringing his GI Joe doll and accessories to school? Is a 14 year old criminally liable for writing angsty goth poetry on her web site? We need to pay attention to these laws, and work to create something a little more sane and reasonable.

20. Clergy Certifications - Yes, I know, legally, only the religion can properly certify their clergy. But, with laws requiring certain types of common clergy activities to have legal certifications, how do we communicate these to our fellow Pagans? We can, without legally sanctioned certification, offer pre-marriage and marriage counseling, pastoral counseling and education of our religion, grief counseling as long as it pertains to our religion (if we go outside the religous bounds, we need legal certification from an approved school), and we can offer various rites of passage counseling. But, drug counseling, pregnancy and childbirth counseling , adoption counseling, certain types of family counseling, and any type of counseling involving prescribing medication require certification from an accredited school (OK, not all of these are required in every state, it doesn't hurt to be aware of what the state laws are). And, how many Pagan are aware that clergy confidentiality is not legally protected in all states, that clergy are required to report and may be criminally liable for not reporting confessions of certain crimes?

21. Elder Care, Funeral, and Burial Regulations - Pagans do die, too. And grow old. What laws will protect elderly Pagans in nursing homes (given HIPAA restrictions in particular)? What laws cover funerals and burials in your state? Do you really want your Pagan loved ones buried in a Chrisitan sanctified graveyard? Can Pagans create Pagan graveyards (the answer is "yes" in most states)? How can we make burial laws and nursing home laws more Pagan-friendly?

There's probably more, but I feel these are far more important than trying to force legislation that will declare Paganism "legal". No other religion has laws proclaiming them legal, because our Constitution already gives them legal sanction to exist and govern themselves.

posted by Noddy at 10:27 AM

The PAssion

The Passion has been in the news a lot, probably because this is Christianity's most important religious holiday. Any messiah can be born, but only one died in a way that effected a majority of the world.

This movie is about the life and most especially the death of Jesus.

I haven't seen the movie itself, but I did see the "making of" and several reviews.

But, those pieces have given me some food for thought.

They've actually supported my reasons for not being Christian.

Let's take a look at some of the things I noticed in the "making of" - a TV special that highlighted what the producer felt was important about the movie.

The primary message seems to be that Jesus was great because he suffered greatly - voluntarily. Suffering doesn't make a person morally better, nor does it make their message more powerful. To me, Jesus' most powerful message was buried under the tales of his woe and suffering. He advocated in a time of harshness gentleness and care for others, of thinking for oneself. These are important messages, obscured by the movie's focus on torture and suffering.

A religion that glorifies, as this one does, the gore and pain at the expense of the other messages just isn't a religion I can in all good conscience follow.

The after marketing of this movie attests to that - they sell, not necklaces and charms and such of fish or loaves of bread, or other symbols of Jesus' miracles or messages, but of nails - replicas of nails reputedly used to nail Jesus to the cross.

Suffering doesn't add to the glory or greatness of the message of love. In fact, it subtly gives the feeling that if one loves, one must suffer terribly in consequence.

The further notion that because Jesus suffered terribly for the sins of others is morally worthless. How does Jesus' suffering and death contribute to other people's greatness? How does it purify them of any sin or wrong-doing? Killing someone else for the crimes of another doesn't deter the criminal. The knowledge that they can do wrong with impunity because someone else, someone innocent, will suffer, will only encourage the criminal.

Then, we are supposed to juxtapose the fact* that we are all, by the very fact of our birth, sinful with the fact* that Jesus was not sinful - and only the death of an innocent can purge us of our sins.

I don't know about you, but I know most people are basically good people. Comparatively few people commit egregious wrongs. The bulk of wrongdoing is minor, and rarely increases. To assume, from the start, that everyone is sinful is doing them and the world, and even any creative Deity an injustice.

What God deliberately sets out to create a flawed piece, then subjects it to horrible things because it is flawed?

Whether people are good or bad must be judged on their acts - all of them, together, not just a select few. When the US was founded, the presumption was that people were inherently decent and just, and therefore had the right to be presumed innocent of wrongdoing unless there was proof otherwise. Real proof, not just hearsay evidence or another person's word. There had to be an evidentiary connection, material solid proof.

What God would presume his very own people are inherently evil? What does this say about the God? And about the worshippers of that God?

The movie postualtes that everybody in the world, past, present, and future, are responsible for the torture and death of Jesus. This fits with out society's current attitude of blame someone else - and carry the blame forward forever. All mankind is forever blamed of Jesus death, and must forever suffer for it. All of mankind is forever blamed for the Inquisition and deaths of heretics for centuries, and must forever bear the blame. All of mankind is forever guilty of the enslavement, not of all previous slaves, but only of those who were enslaved so briefly in the US [1] - and must therefore pay reparations and bear the blame forever.

Another thing the movie seems to tell people is that if they don't believe Jesus was the son of the God, then they will suffer a much worse fate than the theif who had his eyes plucked out on the cross.

More, in the reviews, they attack the movie for historical accuracy, but never once speculate on the historicity of Jesus's existence. The Romans were obsessive about keeping records. There are no Roman records of a trial similar to what the Christians claim is the trial of Jesus.

I will grant that there were a lot of messiahs running around the Middle East at that time, there is documentation for such. It's possible that the message of perhaps several such messiahs were garbled into one account, and several trials were mashed into one to satisfy a need for roots.

All the Gods know we Pagans are equally guilty of such historical tampering.

I can deal with a mythic retelling of Christianity. I can even deal with it being reasonably hsitorically accurate. From a culture that was predominantly illiterate, a fudging of facts is acceptable.

But - to insist that this is the exact way it happened when we have documentation that it may have gone essentially that way but not exactly is - fluffy.

Worse, focusing on the suffering and death of Jesus obscures his living message, which I feel far outweighs his death message.

And, you know, blaming the Jews for Jesus's death is historically accurate. Jesus was a heretical Jew. He was causing an upset in the governance of the province, distracting people from tax-productive activities, and influencing even warriors to be peaceful. Even if the Jews weren't entirely responsible for the death of Jesus, (or the conglomeration of messiahs that evolved into a single form we know as Jesus), they certainly conspired with the Romans to suppress and kill these messiahs.

It's not going to make modern Jews evil, unless you subscribe to the "eternity factor" : everyone is responsible forever for the actions of all their ancestors.

Yanno, people are responsible for their own actions, and the consequences thereof. My children are not responsible for my actions, although they may have to suffer the consequences of them, and they may have to make changes. But eventually, at some point, my descendents will cease having to bear the consequences for my actions. The cumulative burden of people doing things will otherwise become too great to bear.

One of Jesus's messages was forgiveness. Where is that message today?

* - Not facts, really, but concepts that are presented as fact and treated as fact.

[1] The descendents of the slaves in the US forget that slavery existed in other parts of the world, forget that other peoples were enslaved, some for many centuries, and they forget there are still people living in slavery today. They have fixated upon one brief event in hsitory and are intent on extracting every ounce of guilt and reparation they can from innocent people. It's apparently the Christian thing to do.

posted by Noddy at 3:06 PM

Whiney Pagans

All the Gods know I hate whiners of any sort, but Pagan whiners absolutely drive me up the wall.

I had to get my minister's certification from a Christian church before I could call myself a "reverend".

Gag. First off, well, no, let me start from the beginning of this sentence.

The term minister presupposes the person has other co-religionists who look to them for guidance and counseling. The key words here are other and co-religionist. Without both of these, there is no reason for a person to even seek ministerial certification of any sort. To whom will they minister?

"from a Christian church" - for the love of all the Gods and Numena in Dea Nutrix - why? It is a perversion of Christianity, and I can quite clearly see why this would upset them. Unless a group is wanting incorporation for charity, education, or land purchase purposes, or to issue legal marriage licenses (all of which are tax-driven), there is no need for any religion to be formally recognized by any legal entity. Only if a group wants to collect donations from people outside the group, offer classes, or buy land for a temple or whatever should they consider pursuing formal, legal recognition. Even without such recognition, the group is still legally allowed to function as a religion, it's set up that way in the US Constitution, the Constitution of every state in the Union, and often reiterated inthe statutes of each state. And if the group doesn't care if the marriages performed between their co-religionists are legally valid, then there's no need for registration and licensing with the county (it's usually done on a county level). Many states allow for non-religious people to perform marriages - friends, bosses, captains of ships, strangers you meet at Wal-Mart...

So, I fail to see the driving need these Pagans have to be legally recognized.

And calling themselves "reverend"! What a crock! If one is truly Pagan, suborning a respected title from another religion is far from the proper way to do things. There are certain religious titles which are no longer associated with any specific religion: minister, priest, clergy. These may be freely used by anyone who fulfills the functions those titles describe, regardless of religion. Why the whiney pushy need to be called "reverend"?

In speaking to and listening to Pagans online for 5 years, and to assorted other Pagans in person for far longer than that, it boils down to this: They want the instant recognition and respect the title bestows without ever actually working for it, and they don't care who they hurt in the process. They don't care that by appropriating some other religion's sacred titles, they hurt the other religion, and they hurt themselves. These whiney little Paganettes forget that they are hurting themselves far more than they will ever realize. Worse still, they make the legitimate efforts of other Pagans working to build the respect for and of Pagan religious titles more difficult.

But they don't care. They want that respect now, and screw everyone else.

Then they have the gall to whine that no one takes them seriously.

Well, that's true. I, for one, will never take a Pagan seriously who steals religious titles from other religions.

Stealing the title shows me they haven't made the effort to know their own religion very well. It shows me they don't take their own religion seriously. It shows me they haven't made any commitments to their religion.

It just plain pisses me off that they will disrespect other people's religions and their own.

Worse still are the people who want to counsel people of all religions, using their respective religions. I know this is a job requirement for the military chaplains, but they receive special training and support for doing this, they aren't hairing off doing it all by themselves under false titles they've stolen from assorted religions.

There are very few true meta-religionists - people well enough versed in a plethora of religions so they can effectively minister to a wide variety of people from other beliefs. These people, because they have had the training and experience, can call themselves the equivalent of the level they achieve in any religion they minister.

Reverend is not a catch-all title for just anyone who's ever opened a book and read the directions on conducting a ritual. It is a specific title for a specific religion. And that religion isn't any of the variety of Pagan religions out there.

Now, having griped about what the whiney Pagans are doing, is there a solution?

Of course there is.

We can look to other religions, Islam, for example, has no ordained clergy, but draws from a pool of scholars to guide and lead the adherents. This sounds as if it would work well for Pagans.

Pagans need to select or create titles among each Pagan religion and determine what they mean, then enforce it. There are many words we can use to make new titles. Perhaps we ought to explore them if creating and drawing from a pool of Pagan scholars is not wanted.

There's the Vedic hotar, which refers to a person who conducts or leads the rituals. There's Greek iereus for priest. There's Hebraic kahane, also for priest. In Zoroastrianism, there were the Avesta: athravan/man of fire, zoatar/officiant, rathwi/minister, mobed/father or elder magician, magus/magician, . From Rome we draw such sacred positions as sacerdos, pontifex, augur, flamine, fetiales, luperci, bacchante. From German, we get ewarte, guardian of justice. From the Chaldeans, we get nisakku/sacrificers, baku/seers, and asipu/ritualist.

Of course, this all brings up the question of why would we want a professional trained priesthood. Wasn't one of the purposes of becoming Pagan to escape a trained, professional priesthood?

Take a look at what a trained professional body does: they provide training to an agreed standard, but they also control and define the content of the training, ensure income and status for licenced professionals by limiting the supply of them so there is a permanent market scarcity, and seek to drive unlicensed practitioners out of practice. It has proven so historically. The proffesion exists for the professional, not the people they serve. The concept of Paganism was the reverse.

Our "professional" Pagans were so through a proven track record, usually within their own group, not through paper qualifications or licensing by some institutional body that can be bought. These priests and priestesses were sought for their knowledge, and they would assist. Rarely did you hear of such a priest/ess "doing a ritual" for others who passively accepted it. Instead, they placed their skills, knowledge and experience at the disposal of the ones asking them, making the others an active part of the ritual. Individual spiritual power and responsibility are the focal point of Paganism.

The problem with the modern trend towards "professionalizing" the priesthood of Paganism is that too many of the proponents of this have not left their Christian roots behind, embraced and learned their version of Paganism, and grown through it. It's true that we Numenists have a paid clergy. But you will note, especially if you've read this blog for any length of time, that our paid clergy are paid to render specific services, services that we, as a group, need accomplished on a reliable time scale; securing permits, locating meeting sites, keeping records, purchasing supplies, maintaining sacred items and calendars, to make hospital visits at times when the rest of us are at work, that sort of thing. When it comes to ritual, we each perform within the framework in a diverse and personally fulfilling way. Our priesthood is not paid to lead ritual, or to study our religion, or to practice magic, or to intercede for us or to speak in our names to the Gods and Numena. We are each responsible, even on the most minor Celebrant level, for that.

Some religions may want or need a trained priesthood, and when they do, they need to create their own version of it. The Asatuar are doing a grand job with their Gothar.

We feel we're doing a good job with our Caretakers and Clergy.

Would that other Pagan religions were as confident of their own beliefs as we are.

Perhaps that would allow them to see the needs of their own specific religion, to define who they are, define who they expect their leaders to be, and decide if they even need a professional priesthood.

Then, they can concern themselves with meta-Pagan issues, and intrafaithing or interfaithing efforts, or even going on to meta-religion issues.

posted by Noddy at 2:32 PM

Pagans vs Meta-Pagans

People continue to discuss leadership, either declaring we need no leaders or complaining we have no real leaders.

To me, that's like saying explorers don't need to know what other explorers have done. That means it's perfectly possible to approach Central Park as new and explored territory, because of course, you didn't know it's been so explored it's in the middle of a major city, and practically everyone there knows all its nooks and crannies. After all, you've never been there.

Leaders have been there. They know directions, tricks, tips, pitfalls, scenic palces to pause, the best eats, and the worst. They know the customs and expectations, the landscape and the atmosphere.

So, what's the purpose in eschewing what a leader is? Why badmouth people who have been there and are willing to share what they learned?

In Numenism, respect is taught for our leaders. Perhaps that's because we show what it is our leaders are expected to know, and be able to do before they are acknowledged as leaders. Here is a brief outline:

1. Knowledge of our religion
a. History
b. Philosophy
c. Theology
d. Liturgy

2. Intimate knowledge of our Divinity structure
a. Primary Pantheon
b. Auxiliary Deities
c. Other Spiritual Beings

3. Knowledge of the people in the House
a. Personalities
b. Strengths and weakness
c. Skills
d. Needs

4. In-House communication and group dynamic skills
a. Balancing personalities within the group
b. Making sure NO ONE is left out of the loop
c. Handling personality conflicts

5. Creativity
a. Essential for designing ritual
b. Essential for planning social events
c. Essential for implementing charity events

6. Knowledge of our Ritual structure
a. Primarily our ritual structure
b. Ritual structure of guests' traditions and religions
c. Ritual structure of other Pagan religions

7. In-House motivational skills
a. Ability to detect and assist flagging spirits
b. Ability to inspire others to participate

8. In-House organizational skills
a. Ability to plan in-House events
b. Inventory skills to keep supplies current
c. Willing and able to secure needed permits and licenses
d. Keeping track of in-House sponsored charities
e. Managing the paperwork
f. Bookkeeping

9. In-House counseling and pastoral care skills
a. General spiritual counseling
b. Marriage and divorce counseling
c. Rites of Passage counseling
d. Special Interest education and activities
e. Disaster preparedness

10. Intrafaithing skills within our specific religion
a. Keeping in contact with other groups
b. Sharing information with other groups
c. Assisting in virtual events between groups
d. Maintaining web pages
e. Moderating email group
f. Assisting in physical events between groups

11. Knowledge of our magical system

12. Intrafaithing skills within our broader umbrella religion(s)
a. Communicating with other Pagan groups
b. Sharing information with other Pagan groups
c. Assisting in multi-Pagan social events
d. Assisting in multi-Pagan charity events

13. Interfaithing skills
a. Communicating with the clergy of other religions
b. Sharing information with clergy of other religions
c. Assisting in multi-religious social events
d. Assisting in multi-religious charity events
e. Assisting in disasters with other religions

14. Community Skills (what we consider "Meta-Paganing"
a. Communicating with local authorities
b. Non-religious community participation (parades, community
charities...)
c. Attending City Council meetings
d. Tracking city, county, state, and federal legislation affecting us
e. Educating local authorities on our specific religion
f. Educating authorities in conjunction with other Pagan
religions about us
g. General chaplaincy to non-co-religionists.

The most important attribute our Pagan leaders should have is identity with their own specific Pagan religion, whether it's Wicca, Numenism, Asatruar, Reconstructionist, Celtic, Shamanic, Eclectic, Dianic, Egyptian, or whatever. The first, most important thing a
leader has to have is IDENTITY.

Yes, this involves the often taboo topic of defining who they are,and who their group is, and what their religion entails. Everyone has this bugaboo about not forcing their spirituality on others, so much so, they don't even explore it themselves. They don't know who hey are in relation to teh Gods, themselves, a those about them. How can they expect to lead?

In March, 2001, there was a Pagan Leadership Conference in Indiana. Sadly, it seems the opinion of what constitutes a leader and what the leadership goals of the Pagan community are is focused on finances and legalities. How to meet the Pagan community's financial needs. How to organize a Pagan lobby group. How to hold fund raisers. How to build groups. Sounded a lot like some pyramid scheme and not a religious concern at all. Where were the issues on identity, ethics, religious creeds and definitions? Where was the spirituality and the theological concerns? How do we educate and care for those who enter Paganism, and flounder? Should we let them flounder, or extend a hand? These are what religious leaders should be concerning themselves with.

I see a bit of that same thing throughout the Pagan community. The focus isn't on leading your individual group, building an identity for yourselves, educating your own people about who and what your religion is, defining ethics and morals, encouraging spiritual growth. The focus of leadership seems to be how an individual can present themselves as the leader of their people to the broader community, to be a Meta-Pagan.

We should be providing for our people before we start preaching to the general public, supporting our projects and beliefs before organizing charity campaigns for those outside of our groups, and educating our own before we worry about educating others.

Far too many people seek out Paganism and leave in despair because they have no one to show them the way. Or they decide they prefer being solo, because the local groups are so involved in being Meta-Pagans, they're neglecting one another.

We should first be Pagans, then leaders, then Meta-Pagans.

posted by Noddy at 2:13 PM

Beware

We Numenists are obviously bad news for Traditional Witches and Wiccans. I've had several from both groups email me with information on how we qualified as a "bad" coven.

Newsflash: Numenists are neither witches nor Wiccans. The criteria which you claim makes us a "bad coven" doesn't fit us at all, just as the criteria for a good church wouldn't fit us. We cannot be judged by data designed for a group with whom we do not claim membership.

For example: this whole lineage thing. We are not a bad group because we don't keep records on lineages. We are not an initiatory religion, therefore it isn't important to know from whom we derive our information.

And this Cakes and Wine thing - we Numenists subscribe to neither the High Mass nor Wicca, so having cakes and wine is not an essential part of our religious practices. Food is, and sometimes it may look like Cakes and Wine, but the energy flow and purpose are different. To judge us as a "bad" group because our rituals do not raise energy or exist to create magic, and we don't do the cakes and wine is to judge a car by the standards of a tree. It just doesn't make sense. Our rituals and our magic take different form, and that of standard witchcraft and Wicca aren't the forms we use.

We think milk and beer and mead and water are perfectly acceptable libations. In fact, we create "Moonwater" specifically as a libation. But we'll also use RC Cola, root beer, peppermint tea, or any other beverage that comes to hand.

We've also been called to task for calling ourselves "Houses" and "Clans". Don't we know we're supposed to be a "Circle" or "coven"? Since when? We've connected ourselves to one another through a family structure, close and extended. We call our small groups "Houses" because we share a house as a point of gathering and community and contact. Related Houses can be Clans or Septs, and families that breed and create new Houses can call themselves gens, if they want. And if a subgroup in Numenism wants to use "grotto" or "Cave" or "meadow" as their group name, what's the harm?

Perhaps the last thing they complain about most is our exclusivity.

Yes, we are rather exclusive. It takes a lot of effort to understand our magic system. It can take years to begin to work effectively with it. Some people just can't manage. And it takes a certain kind of person to deal with the large degree of autonomy we offer to our adherents. We have a small, flexible framework. Upon that is built the rest of one's beliefs and each person, each House, or Clan, or Gens makes their own unique style of religion from it.

But not everyone wants that degree of responsibility and autonomy. They want a "leader", a "final authority". Except for the very few basic premises, the foundation upon which we build, that which has been written, there is no other authority. And even those can be changed with compelling new information and evidence.

We aren't averse to adaptation. Nothing is rigid and forever.

So, those of you out there who are trying to force Numenism into some sort of Wicca-esque mold - quit it. We don't fit. We aren't Wicca. We aren't witches. We are Numenists (at least until we change the name again.).

posted by Noddy at 4:03 PM

Costs

Not everything has a price, but the important things are always accompanied by a cost.

There is a difference. A price is what you pay for something. Pricing usually comes in barterable form, materials and goods, cash.

Cost, however, isn't negotiable. It is the penalty or the expenditure to achieve something. It isn't always tallied in coin, but in sweat and sacrifice. That it often leads to great triumphs is all that makes the cost worth paying.

The price of a textbook doesn't indicate the cost of learning the information stored within it. The two are separate.

For some reason, though, many people seem to conflate the two terms: price=cost, and cost=price.

Many people who come to Paganism see only the dollar signs of acquiring it, not the sweat of being it. They confuse the books and candles and incense with the methods and skills and knowledge.

The years it takes to learn, truly learn, Paganism are short shrifted by those who have been taught from birth that everything has a price. All they have to do is discover what it is, fork over the required cash, and the mysteries of the universe are theirs to play with.

posted by Noddy at 2:47 PM