Sounds like the Republican talking points. This is the middle of a campaign.

This year is for John Kerry and John Edwards; eight years from now, we hope the party and country is ready for a greater shift to the left.

why not four years? especially if the occupation/war in iraq is continuing.

Yes, and the poor sad flyover people in the heartland will realize that this convention is not for the military.

Puh-leaze.

-C

PS - Glad you're having fun!

So Kerry and Edwards aren't going to use Iraq as a political expedient...that's refreshing!

It's appropriate that the military have a strong presence in support of Kerry. The man is a veteran, and he has a lot of support from members of the military and veterans groups.

"All the talk of pressuring Kerry while making things a 'little better' through the election of a Democratic administration cannot hide the fact that these various elements of 'radical' politics lack any independence from the two-party system. In the end, they serve as a left prop for bourgeois politics as a whole and an obstacle to the struggle to mobilize the working class independently in a political struggle against capitalism.

"These elements employ radical demagogy for the purpose of diverting the mass opposition to the Bush administration behind Kerry and the Democratic Party. To the extent that they exert 'pressure,' it is directed not against Kerry, but rather against anyone who rejects the 'lesser evil' politics that they embrace and dares to oppose the Democrats from the left.

"The Socialist Equality Party’s campaign is diametrically opposed to the dishonest and politically corrupt efforts of these 'left' apologists for Kerry. We say frankly to workers, students and young people that there is no political shortcut via the Democratic Party in the struggle to end war and social reaction. A new, independent, mass socialist party must be built to unite the struggles of American workers with their class brothers and sisters internationally in the fight to put an end to capitalism."

The Democratic convention and Kerry’s left apologists
By Bill Van Auken, SEP presidential candidate, 28 July 2004

Nobody's going to be allowed to voice the overwhelming anti-war sentiments of rank-and-file Democrats (the ones who were inspired by Dean). I was listening to Pacifica's "Flashpoints" program last night and learned something extremely disturbing about how tightly this convention is being controlled. Medea Benjamin, a long-time anti-war activist, reported that during Teresa's speech (at the exact moment Teresa was telling us that it's important to "tell truth to power), she walked onto the floor of the convention and unfurled a banner that said (I'm paraphrasing) "End the Occupation, Get the Troops Out Now." She was immediately surrounded by security guards, the Colorado delegation was told to get in front of her so the sign couldn't be seen, and she was then hustled off and grilled for a half-hour on her political views by the security personnel.

I'd expect this sort of thing at the Republican's hatefest, but is the Democratic leadership so afraid of anti-war dissent that they have to stamp it out with strong-arm tactics?

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, considering the bellicose tone of Edwards' speech, but it's still a depressing thought that, although the Democratic core hates this war, it's not allowed to say so, but has to cheer as the Democratic leadership promises to expand the war, but to conduct it more "competently" than Bush.

And people wonder why some people are tempted to vote for Nader.

phi

It's appropriate that the military have a strong presence in support of Kerry. The man is a veteran, and he has a lot of support from members of the military and veterans groups.

Only 2 of John Kerry's 23 fellow Swift boat commanders from Coastal Division 11 support his candidacy today.

One commander claims 2 of K's wounds were self-inflicted.

Most veterans wont support fellow veterans that characterize them as babykillers and throw away their medals.

What is your estimate of "a lot of support"? 20, 30 %?

Kerry did his job, Bush did not!
But both Bush and Kerry are in fact one person, and are all for one idea, one world and Endless War, "for your kids", but vote for Kerry he is less Evil. And he was in a real war, bush was not.

It seems to me that announcing an actual date makes the date more important than the work that has to be done there - as Bush proved by his election year shenanigans of handing over "sovereignty".
I was against invasion but leaving a mess there now isn't in our or the Middle East's or the world's interest. Announce the goal of the exit strategy and don't leave until you reach that goal.

Soon hopefully.

Repeat that crap about Kerry not really being a hero -tell that to Rev Alston
and then explain where Bush was all of 1972 -
Kerry
volunteered for Viet Nam
Prosecutor, DA, Lt.Gov. Senator

Bush
Texas Air National Guard unable to get anyone to say he completed his service -where was he in 1972
failed developer oil man
baseball team owner
governor in a weak governor state

I think I prefer Kerry

Ann Durrell

post 2

Also Richard Holbrooke articulates very well Kerry's Iraq position and it is a media myth that he has no plan or is no different than Bush
Just because you are too lazy to find out because the media doesn't cover it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
It's this kind of crap that will get us four more years of Bush

Ann Durrell

To my understanding, Kerry's position on the war in Iraq is to bring in our old pals, our European allies, the ones George Bush pis**d all over. French fries for everyone! If those European allies were involved, it wouldn't appear to the terrorists who hate us that it was only the United States they were fighting, it would appear to be the whole world.

Kerry can't do this unless he is elected and put into office. Bush's arrogance has completely alienated our European allies. I think if the United States fires Bush and elects a new leader, the United States will be seen in an entirely different light by the rest of the world.

we said 8 years because Kerry is going to win and he'll be in for 8 years.

Boat commanders against Kerry?
ONeil has already been revealed as a
tool for Chuck Colson and Richard Nixon..try again

Anti-war isn't a good term, it should be anti-iraq war. Most democrats supported the afghan invasion. There is a very big difference between the two, though Bush would like us to believe otherwise.

In regards to the Dem party shuffling aside voices of dissent, it's shameful. Kerry has our votes, but the Democratic party better shape up, their "win at all costs" mentality, in place of ideals and open debate, is the same game the Repubs are always playing. Not a good sign for a healthy, open democracy. I despise them just .0001% less than Republicans. They both seem to hate open debate, tough questions, free speach, and anything that pulls them from the big grey center.

I wonder if there are any budding politicians in the military right now who wonder if they should run as a democrat and have thier military service used against them? Oh well, they'll get them in a contradiction sooner or later.

Kerry volunteered and led men in battle. If you have a problem with that, then your partisanship is more important than your patriotism.

> Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Dennis
> Kucinich are the liberal conscience of
> the party.

I take it you have never lived on the South Side of Chicago? Jesse Jackson is a charlatan and a fraud. If he is the "conscience" of the Democratic party then I may need to reconsider my ABBA stance.

Cranky

I'm in the military and I have close friends who have also led men into battle and have recieved commendations for their valor. Although they are my peers, I would gladly place my life in their hands and follow them into battle any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The crucial difference between any of them and John Kerry is their unwavering sense of duty and integrity. John Kerry lacks these important traits. Upon returning from a war he volunteered to participate in (which ordinarily I could respect) he proceeded to perpetrate falsehoods concerning the conduct of his FELLOW Americans in prosecuting the war. His association with the "Winter Soldier" program of the VietNam Vets Against the War certainly does not speak highly of his credibility. And finally, I ask you: How can a man who supposedly was so ashamed of his service that he cast his medals over the wall to the capital now campaign as a war hero 30 years later? Was he grandstanding then or now? Was he only faking being ashamed, or now is he only proud of being a hero since it is politically advantageous?

Chad
if you are going to be a Republican troll try better arguments

AD

Eight years, eh? Well, at least you're not as delusional as some of the "delusional Democrats" I've been writing about over at Left I on the News, who seem to think that the day after the election Kerry is going to reveal his "true colors" (or perhaps "come to his senses") and start moving the country in a progressive direction. Sadly, this is the same thing people thought before Clinton as elected, only to "end welfare as we know it", start bombing Yugoslavia, push through the forerunner of the PATRIOT act, and lots more.

Eight more years? No, it will be a hundred more years, until progressives finally move in a different direction. As I've written before, a good first step would be Instant Runoff Voting. Kucinich spoke for it, but couldn't get Kerry and the rest of the party to endorse it (even a meaningless endorsement) as a price for his endorsement of Kerry. Instead, he folded his tent, and gave a speech telling us we'll be "blazing a new path with John Kerry and John Edwards."

Meet the new boss, (damn near) the same as the old boss.

Chad

Kerry is not ashamed of his service
the medal return was a rebuke of the government not his military service.

Some quotes from several Swift Boat Vets:

"Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires constant supervision.'"
-- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired)

"Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men and women who are serving deserve no less."
-- Andrew Horne

"I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"
-- Steven Gardner

John Kerry's service in Vietnam lasted 4 months and 12 days, beginning in November 1968 when he reported to Cam Rahn Bay for a month of training. His abbreviated combat tour ended shortly after he requested a transfer out of Vietnam on March 17, 1969, citing Navy instruction 1300.39 permitting personnel with three Purple Hearts to request reassignment. So far as I have been able to determine, Kerry was the only Swift sailor ever to leave Vietnam without completing the standard one-year tour of duty, other than those who were seriously wounded or killed.

It is clear that at least one of Kerry's Purple Heart awards was the result of his own negligence, not enemy fire, and that Kerry went to unusual lengths to obtain the award after being turned down by his own commanding officer.

The above post is a complete and total lie -

Bush no service in Viet Nam
when the country was under attack
he sat for seven minutes and did nothing

Kerry when tested turned and faced the enemy and saved his shipmate's life

If he was there four months he did more in that time then Bush did in his whole military service -which he did not complete

Kerry even reenacted his exploits for a home video. Perhaps he had an agenda back then....

makes you wonder whether the riskless approach to politics today is progress or a loss for all of us. To us, it's the latter. We'd rather see a candidate go out on a limb, bring us some spontaneous passion, even flub a line once in a while, rather than the canned, over-vetted rhetoric we get these days.

From a conservative perspective I wholeheartedly agree.

don't mean to flog a dead horse, but.....

Why leave at 4 months?

Patrick

People might be more willing to have open discussion if the rightwing nuts hadn't questioned everyone's patriotism when they did.

A point of the 9/11 Commission report is to understand the people with whom we are at war. When Senator Patty Murray tried to do that -- people like Sean Hannity tried to impeach her

If there is no open discussion it can be laid at the feet of people like you who are willing to repeat lies just to bolster their point of view

Ann Durrell

Let me see, a true, fact is called a lie! How nice the previous poster cannot even leave a name. BTW, he/she/girly man, is calling the following men liars:
Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann, USN (retired), chairman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired)

Andrew Horne

Jeffrey Wainscott

Robert Elder

Joseph Ponder

Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)

Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (retired) , is quoted, "Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements and allegations... numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were cited by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict. Had war crimes been committed by US forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few and far between. Yet Lt. Kerry gave numerous speeches and testimony before Congress inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an anomaly in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore, he suggested that they were being encouraged to violated the law of war by those within the chain of command.

Bernard Wolff, who said,We look at Vietnam... after all these years it is still languishing in isolated poverty and helplessness and tyranny. This is John Kerry's legacy. I deeply resent John Kerry's using his Swift boat experience, and his betrayal of those who fought there as a stepping-stone to his political ambitions."

David Wallace

Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)

Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired)

William Shumadine

Richard O'Mara

Steven Gardner

Robert Brant

James Steffes

The previous unamed poster is so typical of liberal's. Ignoring facts at their convenience. Why facts just get in the way. Face Kerry is not the hero he being painted to be.

No way! ! ! ! !

.

Obviously Kerry wasnt ashamed of his military service. He made movies about it. He was only ashamed of the service of his fellow soldiers.

David
Repeating a lie doesn't make it true
you can sit in your little troll house at the reeper site
and you can sign a phony name and bravely call for all posts to be signed
what is the source for your facts on Kerry? The Moonie Times?
Katherine Graham Cracker

all but one of the 15 or so men who served under Kerry's command have spoken highly of the senator, and many have said they eventually came to understand his opposition to the Vietnam War. ''John Kerry never backed down," crewmate Del Sandusky said yesterday. ''His philosophy was, `Attack, attack, attack.' "

This was the first thing to pop-up in a search on Kerry's service.

Amazingly, I could not find a single reservist coming out in support of Bush.

The military for Bush/against Kerry are all former Nixon dirty tricksters
Colson recruited them and CREEP paid for them
they were outed on national television
Colson and Nixon are in a conversation about doing all the scheduling for them but not having them at the WH for fear of being caught out --of course since Nixon taped everything --they got caught anyway.
KGC

This is mine:
''John Kerry never backed down," crewmate Del Sandusky said yesterday. ''His philosophy was, `Attack, attack, attack.' "

So is this:

"He saved men's lives in combat," demonstrating his physical courage, Clark said. And, in answer to some Vietnam veterans who assert that Kerry's later anti-war activism was a slap in the face to those who died in combat, Clark said that outspokenness showed "John Kerry has moral courage." retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark

Its all orchestrated by Nixon in concert with Joe McCarthy

"Some quotes from several Swift Boat Vets...It is clear that at least one of Kerry's Purple Heart awards was the result of his own negligence, not enemy fire, and that Kerry went to unusual lengths to obtain the award after being turned down by his own commanding officer."

If it weren't for Kerry coming back home and doing his part to end that misguided war, all these men would be dead. What ingrates.

Why do you want to post this crap? Is this what you want our country to be based upon? Vicious lies, half truths, bashing a man who has dedicated his entire adult life to public service? What have you done with your life?

I assume you're one of those Bible toting Republicans. Does your God say it's okay to spread vicious rumors about your fellow man?

Not McCarthy
Chuck Colson

By the Way
Colson at least because of his born again status has apologized to Kerry for the lies you are still spreading

David Wallace
Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)
Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG retired)
William Shumadine
Richard O'Mara
Steven Gardner
Robert Brant
James Steffes

These are the guys Kerry says ordered their respective commands to engage in acts not in occord with the Geneva Convention in Vietnam. These guys seem to be the Abu Ghraib commanders of their day. One wonders if they have an axe to grind?

The 1:05 pm comment is news to me. Is there a source where he names names? Who ordered him to commit atrocities?

But does any of this really matter? I have yet heard how he will get Germany and France to support US

How much money has Rudy Guliani made off his celebrity status from 9/11

It's in the millions including the
cleaning and purchase of the National Enquirer Bldg in fla..

How much has he given to the 9/11 families

It's a very nice picture of Republican values --turn tragedy into a personal gold mine..
Pior to 9/11 his personal ratings were in the toliet..much like someone else's....

I wonder if there are any budding politicians in the military right now who wonder if they should run as a democrat and have thier military service used against them?

What do you mean Democrats? Did you miss what they did to one of their own, John McCain?

Jim

What difference does it make what someone did or didn't do at a young age 35 years ago? Kerry, or so I have heard, was a war hero. Bush took the easy way out. Next!

By the way, great posts here /sarcasm.

Troll: He did!
Partisan: No he didn't.

Hopefully, not like this.

Bush 'will win allies for action on Iraq'
By Ben Fenton in Washington
(Filed: 18/02/2002)

"But does any of this really matter? I have yet heard how he will get Germany and France to support US"

The first step will be to tell the truth. Bush lied to the U.N., Powell lied to the U.N. Take responsibility for the mess Bush and Powell got us into.

Second step, admit our mistake, apologize for Bush's and Powell's arrogance. Tell them the American Public was lied to, too.

Third step, sit down and talk about how Iraq has changed now that Sadaam has gone, how better it would be for the world if we all work in unison to put a stop to terrorism.

Too:Katherine Graham Cracker.
Just checked the Passport and drivers license, David is still on them. My sources a quite reliable!

Repeating lies, why yes I have seen a lot of it in many posts here!
Check out: http://www.vnsfvetakerry.com/Welcome.htm

I am sure you will find it heartwarming.

Little smear weasel David - We've heard all your B.S already - and nobody's voting for the chicken sh*t little daddy's boy, so take a hike.

What difference does it make what someone did or didn't do at a young age 35 years ago? Kerry, or so I have heard, was a war hero. Bush took the easy way out. Next!

It does matter, if for no other reason than to prevent its repetition in the future.

Kerry had a right, and still has, to comment about Vietnam. He was there. From Zippo raids to Door Gunners whacking water buffalo, bad stuff happened in Vietnam. To indicate otherwise is disingenuous. Next thing, the republi-cons will be telling us there was no drug problem among returning vets.

J.W., how do you learn to write such inspiring prose. And such grasp of the facts! My how I've been humbled.

Heh, heh, heh . . . .

Kerry had a right, and still has, to comment about Vietnam.

As do those who served with him have a right to comment on the character and quality of his service.

"Security forces have captured a high-level al Qaeda operative in a raid in central Pakistan, Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat said."

Breaking News on CNN? Do you think Bush got Bin Laden on the night of Kerry's speech? Oh this is too funny!

Too bad Bush just cannot find anyone
who served with him to say anything at all

David,

One question for you, where was Bush at the time Kerry was in Vietnam? Did he have a medical exemption? Or, like Cheney, was it just not convenient for him?

As posted above...one man served, one man dodged and boozed. I probably would have dodged too, the war was bullshite, but then again, I'm not sending anyone to any bullshite wars. Practice what you preach, that's all. Preach war and violence, spend sometime in a war or a combat zone. Know what you are talking about. Those who send young people to fight should have the common decency to serve themselves. Aside from Powell, has anyone in that kangaroo court of a cabinet actually served? Daddy deferments to safe at home Guard units doesn't count in my book.

Last night a Republican pollster in the very Republican districts of Cincy,Ohio revealed that Bush has lost half his support there. And people knew that Kerry was a war hero and that made them comfortable.
That's why we are seeing these vicious untrue attacks against Kerry's war record.
It is relevant and it has made a difference.

As do those who served with him have a right to comment on the character and quality of his service.

Actually, it's those above him and fellow commanders who are a bit miffed. Those who served with him are standing next to him in Boston.

Yes, he came home and said the war is brutal and wrong. That didn't make the chain of command happy, why should it. One of the understood things is that "you keep quiet about what happens." Kerry didn’t. So what?

If you weren't around then, you have no memory of your brothers, cousins, Uncles coming home and telling you about what went on in Vietnam. We saw it on TV every night. I heard about the Zippo raids, ears, rape, torture...the whole nine yards, first hand from those who were there and saw it. It existed. It was rampant. These guys now coming out of the woodwork cannot make it go away or their complicity in these acts by challenging Kerry at this late date.

Flying F-102s as President Bush did was considered dangerous. One had to be a very good pilot to fly that plane. Talk to anyone in the guard, that duty counts!

Now consider this,

Except for ending-
Slavery
Facism
Nazism
and Communism

War has never solved anything!

Too bad he didn't fly them for very long and apparently not very well

dangerous but he was never in danger
he would have had to show up for that

We all would like to talk to someone in the guard who served with Bush
since you know so much could you please produce that person. Especially for the time in 1972 for which there are no records

Half of Bush's support in Southern Ohio is gone because and this is from Frank Luntz's focus group---people feel duped by Bush

you cannot equate guard service as good with Bush's service which is in question.

Flying F-102s as President Bush did was considered dangerous.

Yeah lots of Vietnamese in Texas shooting at the F-102s, real dangerous.

David:

I will concede that war ended Nazism. But legislation the (i.e. Civil Rights Act) and judicial activism (i.e. Brown) really ended slavery. Moreover, ecomomic realities ended fascism (USSR) and communism (China). War is sometimes, but rarely the best resolution to a problem.

I can't dignify your apologist post with a reply.

> Flying F-102s as President Bush did
> was considered dangerous. One had to
> be a very good pilot to fly that
> plane. Talk to anyone in the guard,
> that duty counts!

Fast jets are dangerous, if not necessasrily unsafe. However, there has been a line of people requesting assignement to military pilot duty since Lt. Selfridge's spot opened up, and fast jets are the cream of that crop. There is not and was then no lack of volunteers for the duty.

Sorry guys, that one won't cut it. Flying F-105 Wild Weasal missions was dangerous. Flying CAP over the Texas-Mexican border was probably a lot of fun.

Cranky Observer

Support the troops? Unless they become democrats and run for office?

I'm sick of people being unpatriotic if they question, the popular views of american society. Kerry never once referred to his fellow soldiers in Vietnam as babykillers, what he did was speak out against the descions and policies that had put his fellow soldiers in the situations they had been to be labeled as babykillers. As a veteran of OIF, I understand this and the right to speak out against something you once were a symbol of. I will never vote for a draft dodger. Especially on turned around and sent thousands of Americans to fight in a war that didn't need to be fought. And I don't care how Kerry received his wounds at least he showed up.

David - You quote those two"Power always right"suck-ups Coulter and Hannity and expect to be taken seriously by anyone with a molecule of intellect? Go play with your G.I Joe and leave the adults in peace.

I hope the Republicans keep this up--more demonstration of hate based politics.

I'm staying out of this one and will drink a beer. This is like a abortion debate. No one will convice anyone else of their side.

Just listened to the 12 minute clip... they cut him off both in the actual interviews and in their editing to give the intended slant they've chosen - but if one listens they can certainly hear that he was in the middle of the explanation... This is a tactic often used in network news to emphasize a preconceived storyline.

How sad that partisan leadership is winner take all - perhaps if we were based on a true confederation seeking the well being of all - we would understand that while any suffers - all suffer. Until that lesson is understood we will continue this ridiculously unsatisfying course of choosing sides and wasting resources.

In the meantime, Kerry seems by far the more able of the two presidential candidates in every regard except the ability of Personal Extreme MakeOvers - not many men who went AWOL, got busted for cocaine, and was an unfriendly drunk, could simply embrace rightwing fundamentalism and get away with being a righteous Good ol Boy!

Seadreams - "they cut him off both in the actual interviews and in their editing to give the intended slant they've chosen .." Now. Really. Would you please quit talking about Michale Moore like that.

plattforkerry - "I will never vote for a draft dodger." So, you didn't vote for Clinton?

Cranky - Yes, flying fighter aircraft is dangerous. Making a bombing run in combat is more dangerous. And your point is?

Dog2 - So I guess all of those Union soldiers who died had nothing to do with ending slavery? I'm going to look up "dumb" in the dictionary. I'm sure your picture is next to it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you just know absolutely nothing about history.

InFearOf - "Third step, sit down and talk about how Iraq has changed now that Sadaam has gone, how better it would be for the world if we all work in unison to put a stop to terrorism."

Have you thought about the fact that Saddam wouldn't be gone if we hadn't done it ourselves?

I seem to remember that all these lovely allies told us to stick in our ear.

Jim:- Have you thought about the fact that Afghanistan might be a workable state if we hadn't gone after Saddam?

David--A lot of guys served on swift boats.

The GOP sent out a feeler for the ones who, like like so Republicans, have built their entire lives around their phobia of the left, then a PR firm fashioned them into an "astro-turf" organization and fan-danced the whole creation around the terminally credulous.

None of the men on the list you've cut and pasted actually served with Kerry. Most have never even seen him in person. Their assessments of Kerry's combat record are about as reliable as Ann Coulters'.

The whole idea was to distract from what the RNC is afraid would otherwise be painfully obvious: If the only thing Kerry did in Viet Nam was just to show up, he'd still have a more honorable service record than Bush.

That Kerry not only showed up, but came home with a chest full of ribbons, has made denigrating his Navy service a GOP priority. Hence the "Swift Boat Veterans For Bush," the claptrap about whether he was injured enough for Bush supporters' tastes, etc.

I don't think the attacks will sit well with the average vet, especially Vietnam vet. A rich college kid who signed up and volunteered to serve with them carries a lot more weight than a rich college kid who played top-gun over the skies of Texas while they were dodging bullets. Warhawks who have never been anywhere near a war can't be reasoned with anyway, those who lived what others only talk about will know, and their conscience will be their guide, not hateful politics as usual. To use Bush's words, "Bring it On", and sink your own ship.

matt w - "Jim:- Have you thought about the fact that Afghanistan might be a workable state if we hadn't gone after Saddam?"

I know this has to be good. Tell me. What is the connection.

kdog - "I don't think the attacks will sit well with the average vet, especially Vietnam vet."

Most military types I know give Kerry a lot of credit for what he did. They intensely dislike him for what he did after that. The Demos don't understand that. The Left really doesn't because they approve of what he did. Overall, Kerry's military experience is a net negative.