9/2/2004
A rhetorical questionOkay, so I’ve been mulling things over a bit, and I find myself confused over something. (Okay, okay, I’m really not at all, but you know what I’m getting at here.)
Libs everywhere are howling with outrage (actually, from where I sit it sounds more like mortal pain, but we’ll let that pass) because Zell Miller “lied” about the likelihood of Kerry turning national security decisions over to France via the UN. As I already covered below, Kerry has in fact said that he would do no such thing; I then suggested that libs were okay with this because they don’t believe Kerry is sincere when he says it, that they fully expect him to renege on this particular promise.
The libs have castigated Bush for ignoring the UN in the “rush to war” with Iraq, but this is nothing but a flat-out lie, and anyone who was alive and awake during the eighteen months or so that Bush was all but begging the UN to enforce its own resolutions knows this. In fact, Bush’s willingness to dither with the UN for so long is a prime source of the disgruntlement with Bush many conservatives have expressed the last couple of years.
Bush also tried mightily to get the French, Germans, and Russians to aid us in removing Saddam from power, but they flatly refused, and it has since become pretty obvious that they were doing so to protect their own financial interest in Saddam remaining in power. In the end, France explicitly and flatly stated that there were no circumstances whatever under which they would seriously consider supporting military action against Saddam, and that was that.
John Kerry says he would “work with our allies” to ensure Iraq’s future, that he would “bring our allies to our side” to finish the job there, but doesn’t say how he would manage it in light of France’s obstinate intransigence.
So, in sum, Bush tried to work with the UN, tried to get the French and other erstwhile allies involved, but when it became plain that they all had various agendas of their own and were pursuing them without regard for the threat posed by Saddam’s repeated refusal to allow unfettered inspections which would reveal the current state of his long-standing WMD program, Bush acted. And all this is no different from what John Kerry now claims he would have done, although he still insists he would have done “almost everything” differently. Exactly how is left to the observer’s imagination, but it seems to be enough for his supporters.
And yes, they scream bloody murder about Miller’s having gutted them like fish; they’re saying that Kerry and the Dems aren’t soft on national defense, that they wouldn’t outsource the defense of the US to the UN. And I’m sure they’d all call my suggestion that the reason they’re comfortable with Kerry’s seemingly hard line is that they believe it’s being offered with a knowing wink in their direction outrageous, if not downright insulting.
Well, if all that is so, and they all truly believe that Kerry would be as tough on international terrorism as Bush has been, then can anybody tell me what the hell they’re so pissed off at Bush about in the first place?
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I think they’re pissed off because Bush lied in order to get the country into the war with Iraq.
Dunno for sure.
Comment by SillyRabbit — 9/2/2004 @ 4:25 pm
WMD’s or not, the Hussein regime was STILL an enemy of the United States, was it not?
Comment by Chris — 9/2/2004 @ 4:31 pm
Add the Left’s reaction to Miller’s speech to the growing list of double standards they’re quick to apply in political discourse and competition.
Like the blind spot over Kerry’s 527s in the rush to tar the SwiftVets, years of demagoguery aimed at Bush are forgotten when Miller gives the Left a taste of its own medicine. Once again, they can dish it out, but can never take it. F**ching crybabies.
Comment by Cosmo — 9/2/2004 @ 4:46 pm
And the appropriately pseudo-named SillyRabbit gives the long-dead carcass of the “Bush Lied!” meme yet another nudge, hoping it will take a breath, open its eyes, lurch to its feet and walk…
Silly SillyRabbit.
Comment by Roy Jacobsen — 9/2/2004 @ 4:59 pm
The one constant about Kerry is that he tells his audiences whatever he thinks is tactically most expedient. Therefore, there’s no reason to take him seriously about anything. His fellow Democrats know that, and as far as they’re concerned, if it will defeat the hated Republicans, it’s fine with them.
That’s also the Democrats’ main beef about Zell Miller. He’s filleted the junior senator from Massachusetts with his own words, making it clear that nothing he says can be taken at face value. Democrats aren’t supposed to do that to other Democrats.
Miller, however, is an honest man—and a serious one.
Comment by Francis W. Porretto — 9/2/2004 @ 5:12 pm
give me a BREAK. I can’t believe you are so blinded. You claim Kerry said he committed war crimes. #1 Cheney got five deferments, I’d be pretty ashamed of that to begin with, but that’s how it goes when you have no military background to run on. #2 KERRY NEVER SAID HE COMMITTED WAR CRIMES, he said he was at a meeting with other vets and “some even” committed war crimes. #3 He was against the reasons for the war but still did his duty & served and could have taken a bullet for his country any day, but you find no honor in that because you’re evil sin nature finds that funny #4 DUBYA got out of service because he was filthy rich
#5 the great leader will be lifted up from his deeper home, later tonight, some say hell, I say he’ll be lifted from his cowardly hideaway after 9/11, but regardless, the news will call it the President’s speech accepting his nomination for re-election.
Zell Miller looked insane last night by the way, and Cheney mentioned jobs twice last night, one reference was his OWN job, which is being the Halliburton Representative in the White House.
Comment by tom — 9/2/2004 @ 7:45 pm
by the way.. that one wacko leader of the “viet nam veterans against kerry” was arrested for attacking mccain’s staff years ago, and superimposed an image of kerry shooting an MIA in a photo. he’s a psycho and a proud member of the SWIFT BOAT VETS FOR (DISTRACTIONS) TRUTH
Comment by tom — 9/2/2004 @ 7:48 pm
No Tom, you’re not getting a break. Fuck that, it’s about time you took a good look at Botox Johnny. 1) So what about the deferments? Clinton got deferments, too. Also never had a DD214, either. See where that got him? 2) That’s not me or anyone else here saying that- it’s taped testiomony in front of Congress. It’s also a matter of record in the Federal Register. 3)What I find funny was his need to bug-out ASAP. Dude, I’m a car electrician, and I receive injuries in the normal course of my work worse than ANYTHING he received a Purple Heart for. In all fairness, I’ve never had to drop my drawers to have rice dug out of my ass. You want to see someone who actually earned his medals? Have a look at my grandfather- A DSC, 2 Bronze Stars, 2 Purple Hearts, and, for good measure, a Croix de Gurre. He got to come home after that second Heart- the government felt it was a fair trade for that leg he left in Belleau Wood. 4) Why the hell do you persist with that bullshit meme- you know, the one that purports that National Guard service is somehow dishonorable? Why is it lefty idiots like you have zero idea of the fact that a National Guard unit can be called to arms at literally any time? Of course, you aren’t aware that we had NG units in Viet Nam. 5) What the fuck? Where did that come from?
I guess you’re angry at Miller for exercizing
his free speech rights, and for him basically
telling the LLL wing- the ‘mainstream’ wing-
of the Donks to go pound sand. For VP Cheney to mention his job during his ACCEPTANCE SPEECH, you shouldn’t be surprised. What surprises me is you’re actually dense enough to think Halliburton is the evil power behind the throne. Just what is it you have against Halliburton, anyway?
Comment by Bill H — 9/3/2004 @ 1:49 am
Somebody wanna go fetch a stretcher for our troll friend here? Or perhaps a broom and dustpan to sweep up the debris with?
Nice one, Bill.
Comment by Mike — 9/3/2004 @ 6:24 am
Tom,
The lack of having any actual facts prior to making your argument should have set off the alarms in your head. I’ll just expound and expand a bit on what Bill H. so aptly, (and politely I might add, as I would have Fisked you a helluva lot worse than that) had to say.
1. After 8 years of Combat-Free Slick Willie, I don’t ever want to hear the word “deferment” come out of a LLL’s mouth again. Unless you are in your early 20’s, in which case you are a pup with no experience in the matter and will get off with a swat to your ass with a rolled up newspaper. This is the type of hypocrisy that in more civilized times would have earned you a royal ass kicking, no questions asked.
2. War Crimes: Bill hit a home run. Listen, Tom, just ‘google’ it. Use “Kerry’s 1971 Senate Testimony”, or “Winter Soldier”, or whatever. Watch his testimony yourself. I know it’ll be painful for you, but if you are a man, you’ll take it on the chin.
3. It is fact that Kerry volunteered for service, but he volunteered for the Naval Reserve…hear that? The Naval Reserve. I’ll say it again, more slowly this time, and please pay special attention to the word after “Naval”: the Naval Reeessseerrvve. As an active duty member of our Armed Forces, a Marine, in fact, I can speak with some authority on this subject: The Naval Reserve is exactly like the Air National Guard, only different; one has to do with ships, the other with airplanes.
4. It is also a fact that Kerry sought, and fought hard for, a deferment to go study in France, before he joined the Naval Reserve, to get out of the draft. Again, I never want to hear the term deferment come out your mouth again. We have some on our side; you have some on your side. Let’s just agree to that and drop it, hmm?
5. Historical fact: some of the units from W’s ANG Wing were deployed to Vietnam. W had just as much chance as anyone else in that Wing of being plucked and sent over.
6. You want to talk about honor? Kerry brings along a small movie camera to Vietnam with him, IOT re-enact combat scenes he is in. As a Marine, this turns my stomach. Where is the honor in that? Why do it? If combat is all gore and violent death and fear and the stench of shit because everyone is dropping their final loads in their trou, why spend time between combat missions filming a re-enactment? To document it? If he did it to document the war, why didn’t he bring the camera along on at least one of his combat missions to film all the war crime atrocities he claims were a daily occurrence, happening all the time, everywhere?
7. I can tell you, as a professional warrior, it is the deepest depths of anti-leadership to leave your men during combat. As a leader of Marines, I’d rather swallow a live grenade, strap a claymore to my crotch, anything, anything, other than leave my Marines, and I’m not even a Grunt. I’m an Aircraft Maintenance Officer, F/A-18s, a REMF who would be miles behind the FEBA. There is no honor for Kerry to be found here.
8. A professional Warrior would never, never, request a medal for him/herself. It is the height of gracelessness. Kerry had to badger an Admiral to get one his Purple Hearts.
9. The Swifties are doing what they know is right. The man who is almost singularly responsible for the incredibly distorted legacy of Vietnam is now running for the highest office in the land. Let me ask you: if someone went on national media and told the nation that you, your family and all your friends were part of a cult that liked to suck horse dick and then eat cow pies, would you sit back and take it? No, you wouldn’t, you’d fight back. And what Kerry said about the honor of these Vets is much worse than getting a little frisky with Seabiscuit. What the Swifties are doing is defending their honor by putting the burden of proof squarely where it belongs: on the person who made such licentious allegations.
Jesus Christ, I could go on for a long, long time…but your just a pissed off 20-something who has never really accomplished anything. Your whining, and especially your writing style, strikes me as someone who got their ass kicked all over the playground as a kid and has still not gotten over it. Grow up.
There is an old adage: If you have no heart when you are in your 20’s, then you’re a Republican. If you have no brain when you are in your 30’s, then you’re a Democrat. For fuck’s sake Tom, stop worrying about equality of results and start worrying more about equality of opportunity.
Semper Fi,
Capt Smythe
Comment by Capt Smythe — 9/3/2004 @ 9:38 am
Damn, Capt. Smythe, you just made my day. Stop by again – please !
Comment by Joe — 9/3/2004 @ 9:53 am
Amen to that, Joe. You can feel free to come on in here for another round of Whack-A-Loon anytime, Captain. And my sincere thanks to you for your service to our country, sir.
Comment by Mike — 9/3/2004 @ 10:19 am
Nice one Capt Smythe…way to lay the smack-down.
Comment by Andrew Ian Dodge — 9/3/2004 @ 10:22 am
Gents,
Thanks very much for the kudos. I am usually a lurker, but it’s getting to the pointwhere I feel that I must say something. It’s just too bad, and I am sure that you feel the same, that there are people out there who are so out of touch with the common lot of humanity that they cease to search for truth and instead just play the role of emotional propagandist, seeing the world not as it is, but what they would like it to be.
Interrogative: Why the hell won’t Kerry just sign a SF-180 and let us see his full military file? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over? (WTF?) Then all this would be academic.
Interrogative: Are the choices over on the Dems side of the aisle, with the knowledge in mind, however repugnant to them, that National Security will be the prime issue in this race, so bad that they really thought they could choose Kerry, with all his baggage, and foist this upon us and we would just sit still and take it? “Thank you sir, may I have another.” How sad. How deluded. How supremely insulting. How little they must think of the average American.
Anyway gents, thanks again. You are most gracious. Keep the faith…and pass the ammo. I’ll be seeing you around this wonderful internet ether…
Semper Fi,
Capt Smythe
Comment by Capt Smythe — 9/3/2004 @ 11:17 am
Heh- all I did was lob a few small rounds at Tom. Capt. Smythe dropped a few 1000 pounders. Good going, Captain, and thank you.
Comment by Bill H — 9/3/2004 @ 11:18 am
Tom:
On NBC’s Meet the Press on April 18, 1971. Kerry was asked, “Do you consider that you personally as a Naval officer committed atrocities in Vietnam or crimes punishable by law in this country?” Kerry answered straightforwardly, “Yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones…. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages.”
But, I guess pointing this out is just ‘hate speech,’ and a ‘personal attack’ on his ‘patriotism.’ I’m afraid you’ve bought a used lemon and the Earl Scheib paint job is starting to peel off.
Comment by Cosmo — 9/3/2004 @ 2:08 pm
Cosmo,
Comment by Capt Smythe — 9/3/2004 @ 2:33 pm
Wow, this is a busy week. First I develop a crush on Tucker Carlson. Then I want to kiss Zell Miller’s entire face. And then Bill H makes me proud of a fellow Californian. Finally, Capt Smythe makes his breathtaking debut. My life is blessed (c:
Comment by A Recovering Liberal — 9/3/2004 @ 3:07 pm
Mine too, ARL, mine too. For all those reasons of yours but one, and also for the fact that the ‘net radio station I’m listening to is currently playing Tex Ritter’s “Rye Whiskey.” My ol’ grandpa used to sing that song when I was a kid—he was a sailor back in WW2, heavily tattooed, and he’d sing it as he made the hula girl on the back of his calf dance for me. No speculation from here on the possibly unwholesome influence all this may have had on my impressionable young self. “Rye whiskey, rye whiskey, rye whiskey’s my cry/If I don’t get rye whiskey I surely will die…” Hoo-yah!
Comment by Mike — 9/3/2004 @ 3:27 pm
Ummm – make that “all but two of those.” I neither have a crush on Carlson nor want to kiss Zell Miller’s entire face.
Comment by Mike — 9/3/2004 @ 3:28 pm
If he’d settle for a hearty handshake, though, I’d be pleased and proud to oblige.
Comment by Mike — 9/3/2004 @ 3:30 pm
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Comment by Mike — 9/3/2004 @ 3:32 pm
Cosmo,
Don’t know what happened above…stray ‘tron somewhere in my system. I wanted to say thanks for putting your money where my mouth is. I knew it was somewhere, but I was at work and couldn’t spend the time searching the net for Kerry’s testimony and/or his remarks in the MSM outlets. Again, thanks for doing the legwork, I owe you one.
ARL,
I’ve read a lot of your comments here, LGF, EJECT^3, other places. I applaud your intellect and your clear-headedness. You honor me with your compliment.
Lastly, I’ve noticed that for some reason, when my posts hit, the hyperlink for my email address is not working. So here it is:
jsmythe1@cox.net
Don’t want anyone saying I can’t walk the walk, know what I mean?
Bill H.,
A hearty “OOOHH RAAAHH” to your grandfather. It’s teufelhunden like him that make my job such an incredible challenge each day…gotta live up to those Marines who came before and set the standard so high.
Semper Fi,
Capt Smythe
Comment by Capt Smythe — 9/3/2004 @ 4:04 pm
I have to take this opportunity to thank our military maintenance folks. A lot of people recognize the shooters as heroic men, but I bet the more astute bad guys look up at that f-18, which seems to be able to drop on them ten times a day, no failures, and think “God, but what I wouldn’t be able to do with mechanics like those!”
keep ‘em up
dennymack
Comment by dennymack — 9/3/2004 @ 4:58 pm
Paging Tom Troll… paging Tom Troll… please pick up the white courtesy phone and respond to the above points. Thank you.
Comment by A Recovering Liberal — 9/3/2004 @ 5:25 pm
I’m getting a little tired of this Dick Cheney took advantage of five deferments thing. Dick Cheney was born 1/30/41. That would put him in the high school graduation class of ‘59 or ‘60. Not much going on in SE Asia at that time, other than perhaps John Kennedy’s elucidation in the 1960 presidential debates.
Cheney entered UofWy as a PoliSci student and continued through to an M.A. That would put his deferments something like 1963-1967, afterwhich he was too old for the draft. Certainly the draft was active 1963-1967, but school deferments were pretty much the norm. Clearly, Dick Cheney had other priorities, legitimate priorities, over joining the military to get his card stamped.
He also married in 1964, at 23 years old, making him even less subject and more adverse to being drafted at that time.
John Kerry was born December 1943, 3 years older than Dick Cheney. He graduated from Yale in 1966 and after failing in his quest for military deferment, joined the Naval Reserve, hardly a testimony to volunteering for the Vietnam war. He also had his priorities.
Cheney was 25 years old when John Kerry joined the Naval reserve in 1966, and was beyond draft age a few months later. The Vietnam war was not yet ugly (I surmise that it got ugly around Tet of ‘68).
Requesting and being granted a student deferment as a married, active college student between 1963 and 1967 I don’t think qualifies Cheney as “avoiding the war” and considering that he took his college degree and joined the Government in the Office of Economic Opportunity in 1969 I’d say he started his contributions to community service early and continued even though he “missed” serving in combat in Vietnam.
The slam on Cheney for “avoiding” the Vietnam war are so disingenuous. I salute VP Cheney for his service to our country and don’t have any disregard for the fact that he just happens to be born too soon to have gotten involved in Vietnam as a soldier. Sure, he could have done it if he wanted to give up a promising career and new bride for awhile, maybe, but as he says, he had other completely understandable priorities.
.jax
Comment by jaxinman — 9/5/2004 @ 7:14 pm