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Open Thread

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One of the things that I always keep in mind as I watch these Sunday shows and listen to the elite opine on the state of the world is that very real people are affected by this insular navel-gazing. People that I promise you never cross the mind of Dick Armey or Sarah Palin. Please take a few minutes to look at some of Mark's videos of homeless people--people who are not lazy or entitled or unwilling to work or better their situation--and remember that it is these invisible people who are being affected by our insane trust in Republican economic policies of free markets and deregulation. And we're adding to their rolls every day by not changing.



C&L's Late Night Music Club With ZZ Top

Title: Beer Drinkers And Hell Raisers
Artist: ZZ Top

For some folks, Sunday is for drinking beer and raising hell...

Tags: ZZ Top

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Fareed Zakaria GPS: Al Qaeda vs. Islam

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(h/t Heather)

On the eve of the invasion of Iraq, George Bush, famously or infamously, had to be instructed on the existence of and differences between Sunni and Shia Muslims. He had no idea--despite centuries of warfare between the two sects--that there was a difference.

Sadly, that cultural ignorance of most Americans is still being played and preyed upon when fostering fear of Islam here, especially in regards to the Cordoba House. As has been previously reported, the Cordoba House is being built by Sufi Muslims, a mystical sub-sect of the Shia Muslims and considered apostates of Wahabbist Sunni sub-sect of al Qaeda.

Fareed Zakaria highlights further proof of the al Qaeda hatred of the Sufis with the July attack on a Lahore, Pakistan Sufi shrine during prayers, which killed 41 and injured 175 more. What gets lost in the amped-up "fear of the Other" rhetoric of Gingrich and Palin and driven by media like Fox News, is that this is not a battle of Islam vs. the US.

Why would al Qaeda attack a holy place at a time of prayer? Because it is a Sufi shrine, part of a sect that al Qaeda despises and regards as a deadly foe in the real battle it is fighting, the battle within Islam.

The Sufis are a sector of Islam originating in South Asia. They're all about mysticism, love, brotherhood and devotion, with very little attention to dogma. They believe in saints, shrines, music, dance, and follow a very liberal interpretation of the Koran.

Sufi poets routinely extol the virtues of wine and song, both forbidden in the purer versions of Islam. Sufism has always believed in tolerance towards other people and religion, and in peace. You can see why al Qaeda views it as its mortal enemy. The more Muslims accept some version of Sufi Islam, the more dangerous for al Qaeda and its extreme jihadist philosophy.

It can't be said enough, with all the misinformation out there: Islam doesn't hate us. This is a battle between al Qaeda and everyone else that doesn't follow their own narrow vision of Islam, which includes other Muslims. The opposition to the Cordoba House is exactly what al Qaeda wants to see.

And how sad is it that George W. Bush eventually came around to understanding this divide and was more moderate in his statements about the Muslim world than the current crop of Republican leaders?


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Meet the Press was its usual strange collection of overly-flogged stories and opportunities for marginal political viewpoints to be propounded as if they're mainstream. But there was one small snippet from Dick Armey where he slid in his pet peeve: Medicare.

Since this is the second time in a week that he's returned to this theme, a reality check is in order.

FMR. REP. DICK ARMEY (R-TX): I believe the folks that want to build the mosque there are making an unwise decision. But I think, when, when I look at the 18 percent of the American people that are enthusiastic about this grassroots movement, we see this as while it's an important issue. It's an issue that ought not to be distracting the president from the critical issues of unemployment, fiscal responsibility, a nation headed for bankruptcy. And the larger issues that affect the future of our children make this issue pale. On the question of should the president be sticking up for the Constitution, our folks say, "Well, great, I love him sticking up for the--we should have done that on medical--Medicare," where, in fact, he trashed the Constitution in the view of most of our folks. And in terms of him being here and then there, it reflects again our fear that this president is whimsical and doesn't really quite know where he is on any subject, even the larger subjects that are driving our folks in, in the street trying to make change in America.

Flash back with me to the August 16, 2009 edition of Meet the Press, where Dick Armey appears on Meet the Press with Rachel Maddow, Tom Daschle, Sen. Tom Coburn and...Dick Armey!

Death panels, anyone? While teabaggers are in an absolute froth over "death panels" and seniors are trembling over the potential loss of "their" Medicare, a position that Dick Armey used frequently to stir up town hall uprisings and the like, Rachel Maddow quietly calls him out on his personal radical views then.

MS. MADDOW: This is a really important point. The anti-healthcare reform lobby thinks that Medicare is tyranny, OK?

REP. ARMEY: I did—I said...

MS. MADDOW: This is an—I mean, you said in 1995 that “Medicare is a program I would have no part of in a free world.”

REP. ARMEY: Right. Absolutely right.

MS. MADDOW: You said in 2002, “We’re going to have to bite the bullet on Social Security and phase it out over a period of time.”

REP. ARMEY: And I’m going to enumerate exactly what I’m talking about. Medicare...

MS. MADDOW: Americans need to know this is your position and this is the position of the anti-healthcare reform lobby.

Dick Armey and Paul Ryan march to the same tune. That's not altogether surprising, and Armey has remained consistent in his objection to "mandatory Medicare." But that's where his honesty begins and ends, because while he believes it should be abolished, he's also aware that Medicare and Social Security are: a) wildly popular programs; and b) not going to be made "voluntary". Knowing that, he used their popularity and the security they give seniors to whip up anger against health care reform, and in particular, the public option, which is where the whole "government-run healthcare" is terrible (for all but seniors) except where it isn't (for seniors only).

Meanwhile, Dick Armey remains healthy and fit, thanks to his Medicare which he cannot opt out of without also opting out of Social Security benefits, which he evidently has no problem receiving.

The only whimsy I see is Dick Armey's.


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The commander of US forces in Iraq doesn't foresee the need for US to resume combat missions in Iraq but isn't entirely ruling it out either.

"We have several different contingency plans for support, but it would have to be something that would change the strategic dynamic here for us to move back to combat operations," Gen. Ray Odierno told CNN's Candy Crowley Sunday.

"Can you define that for me?" asked Crowley. "What is a strategic dynamic that could change?"

"Well, if, for example, you had a complete failure of the security forces. If you had some political divisions within the political forces that caused them to fracture," Odierno replied.

"But we don't see that happening," he added. "They have been doing so well for so long now that we really believe that we are beyond that point."

The Associated Press noted:

U.S. involvement in Iraq beyond the end of 2011, Odierno said, probably would involve assisting the Iraqis secure their airspace and borders.

While Iraq forces can handle internal security and protect Iraqis, Odierno said he believes military commanders want to have the U.S. involved beyond 2011 to help Iraqis acquire the required equipment, training and technical capabilities.

He said Iraq's security forces have matured to the point where they will be ready to shoulder enough of the burden to permit the remaining 50,000 soldiers to go home at the end of next year.

If the Iraqis asked that American troops remain in the country after 2011, Odierno said U.S. officials would consider it, but that would be a policy decision made by the president and his national security advisers.

Appearing on CBS Sunday, the general said that terrorism is still a problem in Iraq.

"We still have a little bit of terrorism that operates here but it has to do with political development," he said.

"It has to do with the government now starting to move forward, move forward economically, politically, diplomatically. Integrate itself back into the region. We are seeing movement towards that but that is the most important thing now. Political, economic development."


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This Week: In Memoriam

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This Week with Christiane Amanpour marks the passings of baseball legend Bobby Thomson, conservative television commentator James J Kilpatrick, bagpiper Bill Millen. In addition, the Pentagon has released the names of eleven service members killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

US Marines SSgt Michael A Bock, 26, Leesburg, FL
US Army SPC Jamal M Rhett, 24, Palmyra, NJ
US Army SSG Derek J Farley, 24, Nassau, NY
US Army PFC Benjamen G Chisholm, 24, Ft Worth, TX
US Army PVT Charles M High IV, 21, Albuquerque, NM
US Marines LCpl Kevin E Oratowski, 23, Wheaton, IL
US Army SFC Edgar N Roberts, 39, Hinesville, GA **
US Navy CPO Collin Thomas, 33, Morehead, KY
US Army SGT Martin A Lugo, 24, Tucson, AZ
US Marines Cpl Christopher J Boyd, 22, Palatine, IL
US Marines LCpl Cody S. Childers, 19, Chesapeake, VA

According to iCasualties, the total number of allied service members killed in Iraq is 4,735; in Afghanistan, 2,019. That number includes 151 Canadian service members. During this same period, Iraq Body Count lists 138 Iraqi civilian deaths.

** It appears that although Roberts appears on the Pentagon's list of fallen service members, he is, in fact, alive. Please see the link above for more information.


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In George Will's world, no peace process is the best path to peace in the Middle East.

The conservative columnist told ABC's Christiane Amanpour Sunday that restarting the peace process would do more harm than good in Palestine.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced this week that there will be new peace talks between Israelis and Palestinians.

"That's got to be good, George," Amanpour prompted Will.

"Oh, no, it doesn't," replied Will. "You can argue that the peace process is the biggest threat to peace in Palestine."

"You can also argue that process is better than no process," interrupted Amanpour.

"That is precisely what I was arguing against. The fact is 19 years ago -- almost a generation ago, we had a big hullabaloo because in Madrid in 1991, the Palestinians and Israelis engaged in direct talks. 19 years later, we're doing it again," Will explained.

Will went on to explain some of the biggest differences between Israelis and Palestinians but didn't say how a lack of peace process would help solve those problems.

"Here's what we don't agree on. [Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud] Abbas has not said that Israel has a right to exist as the Jewish state for the Jewish people," he said.

"He recognizes Israel's right to exist," said Amanpour.

"Not as a Jewish state for the Jewish people. He's been asked dozens of times to say it and never has and I suspect he never will," he said.

"[Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu says the Palestinian refugee problem will be solved outside of Israel," said Will.

"Mr. Abbas wants East Jerusalem as the capitol of a Palestinian state. Mr. Netanyahu says Jerusalem is and will remain the undivided capitol of Israel. Mr. Netanyahu says a West Bank state -- a Palestinian state on the West Bank -- must be demilitarized, must be forbidden to have relations with Hamas, with Hezbollah and Iran. It must have on it an Israeli presence to make sure weapons do not come in the eastern border" he continued.


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The panel on the Fox propaganda channel's Fox News Watch apparently finds no irony in the fact that 1)anyone on Fox is talking about honesty in broadcast news and 2)their panel includes the woman who helped sell the invasion of Iraq in The New York Times.


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There was a time in this country where the poor went to poorhouses, where they were treated like chattel and had no real opportunity to pull themselves out of poverty. Progress changed all that. Programs like unemployment insurance, welfare, food stamps, and Social Security gave Americans an opportunity to survive with at least a foothold to a better life.

This is what Republicans hate. They want the poor to stay poor, to be enslaved to Republican corporate masters, to be grateful for whatever scraps are tossed their way. With that in mind, consider teabagger racist candidate Carl Paladino's latest proposal:

Paladino laid out several plans that included converting underused state prisons into centers that would house welfare recipients. There, they would do work for the state — "military service, in some cases park service, in other cases public works service," he said — while prison guards would be retrained to work as counselors.

"Instead of handing out the welfare checks, we'll teach people how to earn their check. We'll teach them personal hygiene ... the personal things they don't get when they come from dysfunctional homes," Paladino said.

Of course, this is the same guy that thinks bestiality and racist photoshop jobs are fun to email other people, and has no problem using eminent domain to stop the mosque.

I thought teabaggers believed in less government, not more. But Paladino wants to conscript the poor to work for the state and live in prisons in their off time, use state power to confiscate land and the right to build on that land because he doesn't like the religion of the owners of said land, and has no problem with sharing his somewhat twisted fantasies via email.

Fortunately, Andrew Cuomo has a comfortable lead over both GOP candidates, but if Paladino keeps spouting off this stuff, Cuomo might win by the biggest landslide in New York history.


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Apparently Liz Trotta has dispatched a team of investigators to Martha's Vineyard to check on t-shirt sales and they discovered that Sarah Palin is very popular there, or she's just making stuff up. She also thinks that we shouldn't take any attack ads about George Bush seriously because some of the beltway Villagers that she decides to label as the "far left" said some nice thing about George Bush and his insistence that we don't conflate the religion of Islam with terrorism. It's all an evil plot by the terrible "liberal media" where they're pretending to miss Bush now, only to attack him later when the mid-term elections come around, or something.

What Trotta really doesn't want to discuss here is that Republicans would like to keep George Bush locked away somewhere far from sight until the mid-term elections are over and aren't happy about the timing of the release of his new book.

Trotta: Well, let me give you... in keeping with the spirit of what we've just seen, you know, the president is a... President Obama is vacationing up at Martha's Vineyard and apparently the t-shirt that's selling the most is one that deals with President Bush and it says “Miss me yet?” Apparently the subtitle says, "How's that hopey-changey thing workin' out for ya'? " Well we know where that would come from.

But that's the funny part. The serious part is yes, there are invocations to Bush. the Washington Post editorials, their columnists; namely Eugene Robinson " you can't get any more far left than that. And the New York Times and of course Maureen Dowd are all making the case he took the right stand on the... the right Constitutional stand, the right First Amendment stand when it came to separating terrorists from the Muslim... from the Islamic religion.

And so there's what what looks to be a sort of nostalgia at first glance about Bush. What you are seeing from the liberal media is attempt to use his arguments to further their own cause; and that is, that the mosque should be banned. So, I don't think we should take much of it seriously.

Howard Fineman of course of Newsweek did a sort of half serious piece saying that because of Obama's sinking popularity, because of the economy, because of the upcoming elections, there is this kind of wistfulness for Bush and he does have a book coming out.

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