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CURRENT ARTICLES:
Tue, Aug 24, 2010:
How Do I Not Know What I Was Taught
I Know How The Church Can Clear Up The Confusion Over Their Deceptive Ads
Mon, Aug 23, 2010:
Bat Creek Stones And Bats In The Belfry
Daniel C. Peterson Weighs In On N.Y. Mosque Dispute
An Open Letter To The Deseret News / Mormon Times
Sanitized To Protect Your Faith
James E. Faust: Mormon Apologist
Fri, Aug 20, 2010:
New Mormon Commericials And Mothers Who Work
Thu, Aug 19, 2010:
Abuse
You Have To Study Hard To Know The Church Is False
Glorious Persecution - The Backbone Of The Church
Wed, Aug 18, 2010:
Book Of Mormon Monetary System
Can We Bury The Nahom Theory?
Patriarchal Blessings - Phony Fortune Telling
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4,179 Articles In 306 Topics
  ⇒  COMPLETE TOPIC INDEX
⇒  ADAM GOD DOCTRINE (4 articles)
⇒  APOLOGISTS - SECTION 1 (24 articles)
⇒  APOLOGISTS - SECTION 2 (16 articles)
⇒  ARTICLES OF FAITH (1 articles)
⇒  BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD - SECTION 2 (11 articles)
⇒  BLACKS AND MORMONISM (11 articles)
⇒  BLACKS AND THE PRIESTHOOD (8 articles)
⇒  BLOOD ATONEMENT (3 articles)
⇒  BOB BENNETT (1 articles)
⇒  BOB MCCUE - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  BOB MCCUE - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  BOB MCCUE - SECTION 3 (25 articles)
⇒  BOB MCCUE - SECTION 4 (25 articles)
⇒  BOB MCCUE - SECTION 5 (25 articles)
⇒  BOB MCCUE - SECTION 6 (19 articles)
⇒  BONNEVILLE COMMUNICATIONS (2 articles)
⇒  BOOK OF ABRAHAM - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  BOOK OF ABRAHAM - SECTION 2 (10 articles)
⇒  BOOK OF MORMON - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  BOOK OF MORMON - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  BOOK OF MORMON - SECTION 3 (6 articles)
⇒  BOOK OF MORMON EVIDENCES (17 articles)
⇒  BOOK OF MORMON GEOGRAPHY (22 articles)
⇒  BOOK OF MORMON WITNESSES (4 articles)
⇒  BOOK REVIEW - ROUGH STONE ROLLING (28 articles)
⇒  BOOKS - AUTHORS AND DESCRIPTIONS (10 articles)
⇒  BOOKS - COMMENTS AND REVIEWS - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  BOOKS - COMMENTS AND REVIEWS - SECTION 2 (8 articles)
⇒  BOY SCOUTS (12 articles)
⇒  BOYD K. PACKER (24 articles)
⇒  BRIGHAM YOUNG (21 articles)
⇒  BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY - SECTION 2 (21 articles)
⇒  BRUCE C. HAFEN (4 articles)
⇒  BRUCE R. MCCONKIE (9 articles)
⇒  CALLINGS (10 articles)
⇒  CATHOLIC CHURCH (4 articles)
⇒  CHILDREN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  CHILDREN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 2 (11 articles)
⇒  CHRIS BUTTARS (1 articles)
⇒  CHURCH LEADERSHIP (1 articles)
⇒  CHURCH PROPAGANDA - SECTION 1 (4 articles)
⇒  CHURCH PUBLISHED MAGAZINES - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  CHURCH PUBLISHED MAGAZINES - SECTION 2 (14 articles)
⇒  CHURCH TEACHING MANUALS (6 articles)
⇒  CHURCH VAULTS (3 articles)
⇒  CITY CREEK CENTER (11 articles)
⇒  CIVIL UNIONS (13 articles)
⇒  COGNITIVE DISSONANCE (2 articles)
⇒  COMEDY - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  COMEDY - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  COMEDY - SECTION 3 (25 articles)
⇒  COMEDY - SECTION 4 (25 articles)
⇒  COMEDY - SECTION 5 (15 articles)
⇒  D. TODD CHRISTOFFERSON (3 articles)
⇒  DALLIN H. OAKS (35 articles)
⇒  DANIEL C. PETERSON - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  DANIEL C. PETERSON - SECTION 2 (24 articles)
⇒  DANITES (3 articles)
⇒  DAVID A. BEDNAR (12 articles)
⇒  DAVID O. MCKAY (7 articles)
⇒  DAVID R. STONE (1 articles)
⇒  DAVID WHITMER (1 articles)
⇒  DELBERT L. STAPLEY (1 articles)
⇒  DESERET NEWS (1 articles)
⇒  DIETER F. UCHTDORF (1 articles)
⇒  DNA (22 articles)
⇒  DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS (7 articles)
⇒  DON JESSE (2 articles)
⇒  ELIZABETH SMART (4 articles)
⇒  EMMA SMITH (3 articles)
⇒  ENSIGN PEAK (1 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON FOUNDATION (28 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 1 (35 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 10 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 11 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 12 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 13 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 14 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 15 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 16 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 17 (29 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 3 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 4 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 5 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 6 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 7 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 8 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 9 (26 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 10 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 11 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 12 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 13 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 14 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 15 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 16 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 17 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 18 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 19 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 20 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 21 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 22 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 23 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 24 (14 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 3 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 4 (24 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 5 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 6 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 7 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 8 (25 articles)
⇒  EX-MORMONISM SECTION 9 (26 articles)
⇒  EXCOMMUNICATION AND COURTS OF LOVE (19 articles)
⇒  EZRA TAFT BENSON - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  EZRA TAFT BENSON - SECTION 2 (10 articles)
⇒  FACIAL HAIR (6 articles)
⇒  FAIR / MADD - APOLOGETICS - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  FAIR / MADD - APOLOGETICS - SECTION 2 (26 articles)
⇒  FAITH PROMOTING RUMORS (9 articles)
⇒  FARMS / NEAL A. MAXWELL INSTITUTE (26 articles)
⇒  FIRST VISION (23 articles)
⇒  FOOD STORAGE (3 articles)
⇒  FUNDAMENTALIST LDS (7 articles)
⇒  GENERAL AUTHORITIES (27 articles)
⇒  GENERAL CONFERENCE (10 articles)
⇒  GENERAL NEWS (0 articles)
⇒  GEORGE P. LEE (1 articles)
⇒  GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 (20 articles)
⇒  GRANT PALMER (7 articles)
⇒  GUNNISON MASSACRE (1 articles)
⇒  H. DAVID BURTON (1 articles)
⇒  HATE MAIL I RECEIVE (21 articles)
⇒  HAUNS MILL (2 articles)
⇒  HBO BIG LOVE (18 articles)
⇒  HEBER C. KIMBALL (4 articles)
⇒  HELEN RADKEY (17 articles)
⇒  HENRY B. EYRING (4 articles)
⇒  HOLIDAYS (11 articles)
⇒  HOME AND VISITING TEACHING (8 articles)
⇒  HOMOSEXUALITY IN MORMONISM - SECTION 1 (21 articles)
⇒  HOWARD W. HUNTER (1 articles)
⇒  HUGH NIBLEY (14 articles)
⇒  HYMNS (5 articles)
⇒  INTERVIEWS IN MORMONISM (11 articles)
⇒  JAMES E. FAUST (7 articles)
⇒  JEFF LINDSAY (6 articles)
⇒  JEFFERY R. HOLLAND (20 articles)
⇒  JEFFREY MELDRUM (1 articles)
⇒  JEFFREY S. NIELSEN (11 articles)
⇒  JOHN GEE (1 articles)
⇒  JOHN TAYLOR (1 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH F. SMITH (1 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH FIELDING SMITH (6 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH SITATI (1 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH SMITH - POLYGAMY - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH SMITH - POLYGAMY - SECTION 2 (13 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH SMITH - PROPHECY (8 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH SMITH - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH SMITH - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH SMITH - SECTION 3 (25 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH SMITH - SECTION 4 (22 articles)
⇒  JOSEPH SMITH - WORSHIP (13 articles)
⇒  JUDAISM (2 articles)
⇒  JULIE B. BECK (4 articles)
⇒  KERRY SHIRTS (4 articles)
⇒  KINDERHOOK PLATES (6 articles)
⇒  KIRTLAND BANK (7 articles)
⇒  KIRTLAND EGYPTIAN PAPERS (17 articles)
⇒  L. TOM PERRY (4 articles)
⇒  LAMANITE PLACEMENT PROGRAM (2 articles)
⇒  LAMANITES - SECTION 1 (24 articles)
⇒  LDS CHURCH - SECTION 1 (14 articles)
⇒  LDS CHURCH OFFICE BUILDING (10 articles)
⇒  LDS SOCIAL SERVICES (3 articles)
⇒  LYNN A. MICKELSEN (2 articles)
⇒  LYNN G. ROBBINS (1 articles)
⇒  M. RUSSELL BALLARD (7 articles)
⇒  MARK E. PETERSON (5 articles)
⇒  MARK HOFFMAN (12 articles)
⇒  MARRIOTT (2 articles)
⇒  MARTIN HARRIS (2 articles)
⇒  MASONS (17 articles)
⇒  MELCHIZEDEK/AARONIC PRIESTHOOD (8 articles)
⇒  MERRILL J. BATEMAN (3 articles)
⇒  MICHAEL R. ASH (2 articles)
⇒  MISSIONARIES - SECTION 1 (27 articles)
⇒  MISSIONARIES - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  MISSIONARIES - SECTION 3 (25 articles)
⇒  MISSIONARIES - SECTION 4 (24 articles)
⇒  MISSIONARIES - SECTION 5 (18 articles)
⇒  MITT ROMNEY - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  MITT ROMNEY - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  MITT ROMNEY - SECTION 3 (3 articles)
⇒  MORMON CELEBRITIES (11 articles)
⇒  MORMON CHURCH PR (6 articles)
⇒  MORMON CLASSES (1 articles)
⇒  MORMON DOCTRINE (24 articles)
⇒  MORMON FUNERALS (10 articles)
⇒  MORMON GARMENTS - SECTION 1 (15 articles)
⇒  MORMON HANDCARTS (7 articles)
⇒  MORMON MARRIAGE EXCLUSIONS (1 articles)
⇒  MORMON MEMBERSHIP (24 articles)
⇒  MORMON MONEY - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  MORMON MONEY - SECTION 2 (17 articles)
⇒  MORMON POLITICAL ISSUES (3 articles)
⇒  MORMON RACISM (17 articles)
⇒  MORMON TEMPLE CHANGES (13 articles)
⇒  MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 3 (26 articles)
⇒  MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 (14 articles)
⇒  MORMON VISITOR CENTERS (9 articles)
⇒  MORMON WARDS AND STAKE CENTERS (1 articles)
⇒  MORMONS IN THE UNITED KINGDOM (0 articles)
⇒  MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE (22 articles)
⇒  MURPHY TRANSCRIPT (1 articles)
⇒  NATALIE R. COLLINS (11 articles)
⇒  NAUVOO (2 articles)
⇒  NEAL A. MAXWELL - SECTION 1 (3 articles)
⇒  NEIL L. ANDERSEN - SECTION 1 (2 articles)
⇒  OBEDIENCE - PAY, PRAY, OBEY (14 articles)
⇒  OBJECT LESSONS (7 articles)
⇒  OLIVER COWDREY (5 articles)
⇒  ORRIN HATCH (10 articles)
⇒  PARLEY P. PRATT (10 articles)
⇒  PATRIARCHAL BLESSING (4 articles)
⇒  PAUL H. DUNN (6 articles)
⇒  PBS DOCUMENTARY THE MORMONS (21 articles)
⇒  PERSECUTION (9 articles)
⇒  PLAN OF SALVATION (2 articles)
⇒  POLYGAMY - SECTION 1 (26 articles)
⇒  POLYGAMY - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  POLYGAMY - SECTION 3 (6 articles)
⇒  PRIESTHOOD BLESSINGS (1 articles)
⇒  PRIMARY (1 articles)
⇒  PROCLAMATIONS (1 articles)
⇒  PROPOSITION 8 (17 articles)
⇒  PROPOSITION 8 COMMENTS (9 articles)
⇒  QUENTIN L. COOK (4 articles)
⇒  RELIEF SOCIETY (13 articles)
⇒  RESIGNATION PROCESS (23 articles)
⇒  RICHARD G. HINCKLEY (2 articles)
⇒  RICHARD G. SCOTT (6 articles)
⇒  RICHARD LYMAN BUSHMAN (11 articles)
⇒  RICHARD TURLEY (1 articles)
⇒  ROBERT D. HALES (5 articles)
⇒  ROBERT L. MILLET (6 articles)
⇒  RODNEY L. MELDRUM (1 articles)
⇒  ROYAL SKOUSEN (1 articles)
⇒  RUSSELL M. NELSON (9 articles)
⇒  SACRAMENT MEETING (9 articles)
⇒  SALT LAKE TRIBUNE (0 articles)
⇒  SEMINARY (1 articles)
⇒  SERVICE AND CHARITY (16 articles)
⇒  SHERI L. DEW (1 articles)
⇒  SHIELDS RESEARCH - MORMON APOLOGETICS (4 articles)
⇒  SIDNEY RIGDON (7 articles)
⇒  SIMON SOUTHERTON (26 articles)
⇒  SPALDING MANUSCRIPT (7 articles)
⇒  SPENCER W. KIMBALL (11 articles)
⇒  STEVE BENSON - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  STEVE BENSON - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  STEVE BENSON - SECTION 3 (25 articles)
⇒  STEVE BENSON - SECTION 4 (25 articles)
⇒  STEVE BENSON - SECTION 5 (25 articles)
⇒  STEVE BENSON - SECTION 6 (12 articles)
⇒  SUNSTONE FOUNDATION (2 articles)
⇒  SURVEILLANCE (SCMC) (9 articles)
⇒  TAD R. CALLISTER (1 articles)
⇒  TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 3 (25 articles)
⇒  TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 4 (25 articles)
⇒  TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 5 (25 articles)
⇒  TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 6 (25 articles)
⇒  TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 7 (5 articles)
⇒  TALKS - SECTION 1 (1 articles)
⇒  TEMPLE WEDDINGS (5 articles)
⇒  THE PEARL OF GREAT PRICE (1 articles)
⇒  THE SINGLE WARDS (2 articles)
⇒  THOMAS S. MONSON - SECTION 1 (27 articles)
⇒  TIME (4 articles)
⇒  TITHING - SECTION 1 (26 articles)
⇒  TITHING - SECTION 2 (12 articles)
⇒  UNNANOUNCED, UNINVITED AND UNWELCOME (21 articles)
⇒  UTAH LIGHTHOUSE MINISTRY (4 articles)
⇒  VAN HALE (16 articles)
⇒  VAUGHN J. FEATHERSTONE (1 articles)
⇒  VIDEOS (14 articles)
⇒  WARD CLEANING (2 articles)
⇒  WARREN SNOW (1 articles)
⇒  WELFARE - SECTION 1 (0 articles)
⇒  WENDY L. WATSON (4 articles)
⇒  WHITE AND DELIGHTSOME (11 articles)
⇒  WILFORD WOODRUFF (5 articles)
⇒  WILLIAM LAW (1 articles)
⇒  WILLIAM SCHRYVER (3 articles)
⇒  WOMEN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 1 (25 articles)
⇒  WOMEN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 2 (25 articles)
⇒  WOMEN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 3 (5 articles)
⇒  WORD OF WISDOM (6 articles)
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Containing 4,179 Articles Spanning 306 Topics  
Ex-Mormon News, Stories And Recovery  
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topic image
Tuesday, Aug 24, 2010, at 07:54 AM
How Do I Not Know What I Was Taught
Posted By Anyanonymous
EX-MORMONISM SECTION 24   -Guid-
Recent online conversations, with current Mormons, have made me realise that I have no idea what I was taught.

For example, I thought that I was called "a Liar", during a sunday school lesson for suggesting that Joseph Smith had a gun and shot 2 or 3 people, in Carthage jail.

However, some random on-line Mormon (not from my stake) tells me I could not have been called a liar, and that every single Mormon knows that JS had a gun at Carthage Jail.

I suggested that the "History of the Church" was not read by more than a few people in my Stake, and only 2 people, to my knowledge, had a copy.

A different random on-line Mormon tells me that most people have read HotC and most Members own a copy.

In fact - whenever I use examples from my own 15 (or so) years as a member... as a stake missionary.... as an elder... as a ward clerk... then I am wrong.

And finally - this is a direct quote - [I] "have no idea of what" [members] "think about fast and testimony Meetings"

Apparently I have no idea of anything that was ever taught at a chapel.... No idea of what was taught at EQ or SS lessons..... No idea of what went on at Ward council or bishopric meetings.

I am glad there are random unknown on-line Mormons to tell me exactly what I know, because I guess I must have been hallucinating for ~15 years.
topic image
Tuesday, Aug 24, 2010, at 07:52 AM
I Know How The Church Can Clear Up The Confusion Over Their Deceptive Ads
Posted By Jonny the Smoke
MORMON CHURCH PR   -Guid-
The poeple in the new ads should be called "Normons" because they are just normal people who just happen to be mormon. However, most normal people don't need what the church offers, so they won't convert many potential "Normons" with these ads, as we have already seen by the public opinion of them.

The church needs another set of ads to depict the vast majority of actual mormons...the kind of "mormon" they really want in their organization.....

Ad #1 - A soldier in the military taking about how his underwear can stop bullets and napalm.

Ad #2 - A barefoot and over stressed housewife with 8 kids in diapers taking about how important it is to not work outside the home and home school the kids, because you can't trust what is in textbooks and on the internet....even if your hubby is unemployed.

Ad #3 - A gas station owner taking about how he cast a demon out of a family member using his preisthood power, and how he knew it was a demon by the color of his hair and his refusal to shake hands when asked to.

Ad #4 - A pimple faced teenage kid talking about how he will be one of the slain missionaries that rise from the dead in the streets of Jerusalem just before Jesus returns to earth.

Ad #5 - A smelly, wrinkly old man talking about how he can't wait to have hundreds of young hot wives assigned to him to have sex with for eternity in the Celestial Kingdom because he never married in this life.

Ad #6 - A man that looks like Bruce R. McKonkie explaining that the Catholic church REALLY IS the church of the devil.

Ad #7 - An African-American man talking about how even though he was less valient in the pre-earth life (which made him black), he still made the right choice so he could get a body, even a black body, and come to earth and join the church.

I say its time for the church to separate the wheat from the chaff and these types of ads will bring in the converts the church really wants!
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Monday, Aug 23, 2010, at 08:04 AM
Bat Creek Stones And Bats In The Belfry
Posted By MichaelM
BOOK OF MORMON EVIDENCES   -Guid-
Glenn Beck is Glenn Beck, but at one time the LDS church did investigate artifacts for fraud, with a concern for the truth. This involved Michigan relics and an official church commission to determine if they were real. The apostle James Talmage suspected fraud right from the start. It can be read about here:

http://www.hal.state.mi.us/mhc/michre... LDS archaeologist Dr. Stamps even "produced new evidence of the relics' modern manufacture." When artifacts were being promoted as evidence that might have supported the BofM claims, the Church was suspicious and cared about the truth. Well, it aint your grandma's church anymore.

Look a little deeper at the Michigan case:

http://www.hal.state.mi.us/mhc/michre...
"A request that the University of Michigan evaluate the relics and publish its findings led to further scholarly investigation. Professor Francis Kelsey of the university’s Latin Department made his own assessment of the objects. He enlisted Dr. Morris Jastrow, a respected expert on Middle Eastern languages at the University of Pennsylvania. Not content to reach merely a local audience, the two sent their denunciations of the Michigan Relics to a national magazine."
Dr. Jastrow was "a respected expert on Middle Eastern languages". Who at this time at BYU might be an LDS counterpart? And why hasn't a Middle Eastern Studies professor from BYU denounced the Bat Creek Stones?

A BYU faculty member involved in Middle Eastern studies mentioned the Bat Creek Stones to argue for evidence of the Book of Mormon in this 1993 writing:

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publi...
"...the fascinating essay of J. H. McCulloch on the so-called Bat Creek Inscription."
Mention of McCulloch was in reference to "The Bat Creek Inscription: Cherokee or Hebrew?", published in the Tennessee Anthropologist. A rebuttle to McCulloch was also published in the same and can be read here:

http://www.ramtops.co.uk/bat2.html

Newark Ohio had phones ringing all day after Glenn Beck used the Bat Creek Stone to argue for Hebrews in ancient America. There is still no BYU professor publicly declaring those artifacts to be known frauds. Even worse, the LDS men in the belfry of COB have remained silent. This silence shows that the church is being ruled by men and not god.
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Monday, Aug 23, 2010, at 07:56 AM
Daniel C. Peterson Weighs In On N.Y. Mosque Dispute
Posted By Kristen Moulton
DANIEL C. PETERSON - SECTION 2   -Guid-
From the Salt Lake Tribune:
Daniel Peterson, a politically conservative Mormon who has studied Islam for 30 years at Brigham Young University and in the Middle East, says he is so fed up with "demagoguery" from the mosque's opponents that he is tempted to endorse the mosque.

And yet he, and several Utah faith leaders, separate the issue of religious freedom from another value held highly in a pluralistic society: respect.

"Of course they have a right to do it," says Peterson, professor of Islamic studies and Arabic at BYU.

But if the mosque's proponents refuse to heed the torrent of criticism that it's insensitive to build a mosque near where Muslim extremists killed thousands, Peterson adds, it could hurt the cause of moderate Muslims.

"I would come forward if I were the imam, and say, 'We've listened, we do not want to make enemies. We want to be good neighbors. We respect the feelings and the pain, so we're going to seek another site.'"
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/501...

Of course, Daniel C. Peterson ignores the fact that his religion practices necrotic baptisms on Jewish holocaust victims - despite the numerous attempts to have the practice stopped. In December of 2006, writing on a Jewish blog, Daniel stated:
"To Rabbi Hier's remark that "It is sacrilegious for the Mormon faith to desecrate [Simon Wiesenthal's] memory by suggesting that Jews on their own are not worthy enough to receive G-ds' eternal blessing,"

"I would respond that we Latter-day Saints do, quite unapologetically, insist that Jews "are not worthy enough to receive G-d's eternal blessing" "on their own."
See: http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_da...
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Monday, Aug 23, 2010, at 07:46 AM
An Open Letter To The Deseret News / Mormon Times
Posted By Darth J
WILLIAM SCHRYVER   -Guid-
Recently, you ran stories about Brother William Schryver's presentation at the FAIR conference, making reference to what you termed "frustrating speculation by many critics" on internet message boards. I think it is a safe assumption that you were referring to this message board. You also quoted a post from Greg Smith on Mormon Apologetics and Discussion Board about Brother Schryver killing critical theories about the Kirtland Egyptian Papers and burying them under Mount Doom, etc.

I am aware that you will be cutting back your publication and laying off staff members, but since you devoted two whole stories to the new champion of the faithful and hero of Mormon apologetics, shouldn't you take the time to share with your dwindling readership (as evidenced by your recently-announced cutbacks and layoffs) more about this internet buzz regarding Brother Schryver? He is certainly proud of his behavior, as he has explicitly said. Shouldn't you and faithful members of the Church also be proud of your new hero?

Let us all bask in the humble piety and Christ-like character of Brother Schryver, who is to the LDS faithful as Lancelot was to King Arthur. I only have time for a few examples of his noble, pious, and humble spiritual insights.

Speaking of Jesus loving others, Brother Schryver said:

William Schryver wrote:
I'm not so sure. After all, he mocked the Pharisees and Sadducees quite effectively during his mortal sojourn.

Besides, I can do both at the same time.

"I love all of you stinking apostates."
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=13192&p;=327387#p327387

Regarding the sudden necessity for both himself and Brent Metcalfe to be published before a debate can happen:

William Schryver wrote:
So, if I understand you correctly, on the basis of my not having yet published, in a formal venue, any of my findings, they are to be regarded as "lies and b***s***" until that time?

Is this same criteria applied equally to Brent Metcalfe?

I have, at least, "e-published," as it were, several arguments in the Pundit's forum of the MAD board that pertain to the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, as well as my first draft of the scroll-length article that will soon be published in the JBMORS.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=13192&p;=326667#p326667

On respect for women:

William Schryver wrote:
In fact, the more I think about it, the more abused I feel. Do you realize that I am surrounded by a veritable cloud of estrogen from day to day? I am verbally and emotionally abused by females from dawn to dusk, day after day, week after week, and year after year, and they have, each and every one, learned far too well how to hit where it hurts.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=13064&p;=323302#p323302 On his feelings about talking about group masturbation, unbelievers being the spawn of whores, and other Christ-like topics:

William Schyrver wrote:
As I’ve said many times, I hope people DO read everything I have ever written on this message board. Not only will doing so put the lie to the propaganda campaign that has been waged against me, but it will be entertaining for them as well!
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=9005&p;=323178#p323178

On how people who lose their faith in the LDS Church must be stupid:

William Schyrver wrote:
Granted, you and John are nearer the dark end of the spectrum, but then you have people like Polygamy Porter and Liz and Paul Osborne et al. who simply lack the intellect sufficient to be as effective evangelists as you are. That's all right, though, because the majority of apostates are more like them than you, so the presence here of a large number of extremely average people makes it a welcoming environment for all. ;-)
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=13036&p;=322631#p322631

On having civil discourse and friendly relationships with those who disagree with you:

William Schyrver wrote:
The difference being, of course, that it's always clear that I'm just passing through, whereas you and your cohorts belong.

When the day comes that people here start praising me, then you can say that I belong, too. Until then, the lines of demarcation are stark and bold, just as I prefer them.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=13032&p;=322250#p322250

On respect for people of other faiths---in this case, Ceeboo, who is a Roman Catholic:

William Schryver wrote:
Seepoo:.......

From what I've seen so far, I couldn't fill a thimble with the coherent thoughts generated by "follk" like you, so I'm rather disinclined to concern myself with what you think.

As for my "contributions" here in The Great and Spacious Trailer Park™, I can only assure you that they are carefully calibrated to produce precisely the effect you have observed here today. Feel free to use the "Ignore" function to hide my posts from your offended gaze in the future.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=11835&p;=294745#p294745

More on his respect for women:

William Schyrver wrote:
Edit: KA was the one who blogged about her breast reduction surgery. It was hilarious. I laughed. I cried. I blew snot bubbles.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=11836&p;=294717#p294717

On his sincerity:

William Schyrver wrote:
I, on the other hand, am trying to be insulting. Being witty is simply an unavoidable byproduct of my saying anything at all.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=11811&p;=294645#p294645

On his respect and compassion for working class people:

William Schryver wrote:
You're just the homely waitress wandering from table to table here in the singlewide, hoping that someone will get drunk enough to ask you out.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=11811&p;=294086#p294086

And even more on his chivalrous attitude toward the fair sex:

William Schyrver wrote:
I think the real problem is that harmony dislikes women, or rather, being a woman. She resents the fact (as she sees it) that she was born into an inferior (as she sees it) role, body, status, etc.

Of course, she's really not that uncommon in this respect. Modern feminism has now produced at least three generations littered with self-loathing women. It's one of the great tragedies of our times, if you ask me.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=9957&p;=257645#p257645

On his status as a meek and humble follower of Jesus Christ:

William Schryver wrote:
You see, I don’t care in the least about your bawdy sins. Nor am I interested in whatever “punishment” they might merit.

No, what fills me with the thrill of anticipation is the thought of the mighty Jehovah finally smacking down the pride and haughty looks of the arrogant bastards, like you, who have been mocking the Saints from the balconies of the great and spacious building since time immemorial. I couldn’t care less what they do behind the closed doors of their penthouse suites. But I am greatly offended—viscerally outraged—at how the meek and humble followers of Christ have been mocked and ridiculed throughout the ages by people like those of you who continue the apostate tradition on this message board.

The Lord has patiently enjoined His Saints to leave vengeance to Him. And we have patiently done so.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=9950&p;=257410#p257410

On his overall Christ-like persona:

William Schyrver wrote:
You're the toughest talking blowhard of a bitch I've ever seen.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=9950&p;=257348#p257348

And his status vis-à-vis God:

William Schryver wrote:
Besides, as I've indicated previously, I have my calling and election made sure. I'd have to shed innocent blood to fall from my exaltation at this point. And we both know I ain't gonna find any of that here.
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=9950&p;=257348#p257348

On missionary work:

William Schryver wrote:
You're the toughest talking blowhard of a bitch I've ever seen.

"Grrrrrrr ... put up or shut up! Grrrrrrr ... I'm so intimidating when I snarl ..."

:lol:!

OK, you gnarly, snarly wench you, here's some scriptural references for you. Go educate yourself about the law of the celestial kingdom"
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t;=9950&p;=257336#p257336

And to the cheerleaders at MADB who are lurking here and reading this thread, stand and and be proud. Tell the world about your new hero. Show us the Christ-like, humble attitude that Mormon apologetics should be known for, as demonstrated by its new poster boy.

I look forward to more about Brother Schryver as soon as the Deseret News and/or Mormon Times has the space to devote to it.

Sincerely, Darth J

P.S. Other board members may also contribute their favorite examples of Brother Schryver's humble, Christ-like character to this thread to help you spread the word. Don't be ashamed of your hero and champion.
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Monday, Aug 23, 2010, at 07:42 AM
Sanitized To Protect Your Faith
Posted By sock puppet
MORMON DOCTRINE   -Guid-
Compare:
Diary of Joseph Smith, Friday, May 31, 1844 — "called to see Sister Richards who was very sick. Laid on hands. Directed some Raspberry tea and she was better." Scott H. Faulring, ed., An American Prophet's Record: The Diaries & Journals of Joseph Smith, 2nd ed., (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989), p. 486.
With:
History of the Church 6:424, entry for Friday, May 31, 1844 sanitized to protect the Mormons' faith now reads, "called to see Sister Richards, who was sick. I administered to her laying on of hands, when she felt better."
Also, there's this gem that didn't even get sanitized, it was left out entirely: Saturday, June 1, 1844 — "Drank a glass of beer at Moissers" Faulring, supra.

Too bad the compilers of HoC didn't include it to read:

"Drank a glass of sarsaparilla soda water at the Pharmacy."
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Monday, Aug 23, 2010, at 07:39 AM
James E. Faust: Mormon Apologist
Posted By Darth J
JAMES E. FAUST   -Guid-
Please keep in mind the Ninth Article of Faith of Mormon Apologetics:
"9. If you can find any parallel at all between an alleged group of ancient people and a real group of ancient people, no matter how distant or unrelated the parallel and the two groups, you can claim to have shown circumstantial evidence that the alleged ancient group of people really existed without needing to show any evidence that the alleged ancient group and the real ancient group ever actually interacted with each other."
James E. Faust - November 1981 Ensign:
When it was first published in 1830, there was little scientific or historical evidence to substantiate the claims of Joseph Smith that the record came from metallic plates and told of ancient civilizations on the North and South American continents. Today such outward evidences have been discovered and help confirm that Joseph Smith was telling the truth about the Book of Mormon.
CFR.

Also: "ancient civilizations on the North and South American continents."

"The Church never taught a hemispheric model!"

It's ironic that then-Elder Faust incorporated apologetic theory in a talk, considering that he (1) alluded to a hemispheric geography for the Book of Mormon; and (2) was not a fan of picking and choosing which church doctrines you're going to follow, which is standard operative procedure for Mopologists.

James E. Faust - July 2000 Ensign
I have heard some say, “Well, I can believe all of the revelations but one.” It is hard to understand this logic. If one believes that revelations come from a divine source, how can one pick and choose? Acceptance of the gospel should be complete and absolute, with full heart and soul.
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Friday, Aug 20, 2010, at 07:53 AM
New Mormon Commericials And Mothers Who Work
Posted By Moniker
MORMON CHURCH PR   -Guid-
The mormon church I knew did not encourage women to work. My mother was not at all encouraged with her career. She was very successful and those old farts should have been happy for all of the extra tithing dollars.

Nealster just stated the following in another thread, "It's ironic that tscc isn't promoting women going to work, as tithing revenue would be increased." He has a good point. Why don't they encourage women to work? If their finances are in that bad of shape, I'm surprised they have not received revelation about this. Or have they just not YET?

If you think about the image they are trying to sell in their new commercials, that image involves a lot of successful women with careers. Many of them are also mothers. I resent this because not only did they not encourage my mom in her career, but they did not encourage me in mine. Thank goodness my parents saw things differently than the cult. They actually used to threaten me to "not dare even think about getting married until I had a PhD". But the cult did not like that kind of talk. Now I look like a liar to my nevermo friends after I tell them stories of the cult's ERA fighting days, which ended what--a month ago? Luckily, my reputation and the cult's reputation both preceedeth us, so I think my friends still know who the bastards are.

But now all of a sudden the cult wants to act like they encourage women to work? Why is this? We can just dismiss it as nothing more than one more random, annoying lie or we can further examine this lie to find out what their motive might be, much the same as a person has to do when dealing with a Sociopath.

For me personally, when I do this, I can't help but wonder if they will have to load up their space shuttle for a little trip to Kolob to have a chat with their Elohim soon. I predict that they will announce that it is good for women to work. If they don't come right out and declare this as a revelation, then at the very least, you might start to hear the language in their publications, GC addresses and overall tone chill out a bit when it comes to working women.

They know they know they are losing a lot of members and tithes. They also are looked at as dated and too conservative. This small change could help both problems significantly. They might still be racists and they might still be bigots, but maybe they will try to work on their misogynistic image a little bit--for once. Not that they will change anything but appearances and income. . .I guess, in a way, I wouldn't mind this change, for the sake of my TBM nieces. The part of me that enjoys watching them shoot themselves in the foot, one toe at a time, wouldn't enjoy it. But that's the selfish, bratty side of me.
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Thursday, Aug 19, 2010, at 08:47 AM
Abuse
Posted By Anonymous
EX-MORMONISM SECTION 24   -Guid-
I was sexually abused by a member in the church when I was five. It happened at the church.

I was physically abused by my father (an active member of the church) and I watched him nearly kill my brother. When I talked to the bishop about it (because who else could a little girl talk to? a bishop is supposed to help!), he told me I needed to honor my father and respect and obey him.

When I stood up for my siblings against my father, he sternly reminded me that I would never be happy as long as I was being a wicked child and disobeying him. (God will never answer your prayers as long as you are not being obedient to me!)

I went to BYU where I was raped by the EQ Pres. When I talked to the bishop about it, he told me it wasn't my fault... I had committed no sin, but the dude stayed the EQ president and my hometeacher. People got upset with me for not letting him come over to teach me.

I got married in the temple only to be emotionally, physically, and sexually abused. He raped me. Threatened to kill me. Beat me. Told me I was worthless. Then quoted scriptures and ensign articles to prove his point.

I talked to a bishop (again, who else does a little mormon girl talk to?). The first time he told me it was because I wasn't being a good enough woman: pray more, study scriptures, and do more service for him... Make him happy, and he will treat you better. In what world does doing service for a man make him stop beating and raping you?? If it worked for all of the other mormon woman, I'd like to know what was wrong with me...

When I finally decided to divorce, the bishop told me to give it more time and gave me a book on communication... As if to say, if you just learn to communicate better, he'll stop abusing you. I left the marriage. Went through a divorce.

Recently a friend of mine left his wife, because she was abusing him. The bishop told him he needed to learn to take it, because that is what Christ would do. He didn't even tell the abusive bitch she needed to change... after all, she goes to church, prays, reads her scriptures, and attends the temple... there's nothing wrong with her.

It seems to me the church is an excellent place to be if you are an abuser: it teaches people that they have to take abuse in order to be good. So, if you want to beat your wife, join the church... they love people like you and hate women (and men) who know how to stand up and think for themselves.

I have never told anyone these things before.

The church taught me to stand by my husband and be a good wife and keep secrets.

So glad to finally be free from all the lies and secrecy.
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Thursday, Aug 19, 2010, at 07:35 AM
You Have To Study Hard To Know The Church Is False
Posted By the man behind the curtain
EX-MORMONISM SECTION 24   -Guid-
Knowing the Church is false does not come automatically. You have to know the reasons why it is false. You need to follow the arguments and really think about them before you can confidently take your position. This takes a great deal of time. Sometimes many years. You need to read things like "Mormonism: Shadow or Reality", "Wife No. 19", and "No Man Knows My History". You need to read them more than once and you need to do a very thorough job of studying them in depth and thinking hard about what they say. Just learning a few arguments about the Church is not enough. You need to be familiar with many arguments, very, very familiar. In short, you need to be somewhat of an authority on why Mormonism is false.

Doing this is like earning a college degree. Most Mormons don't have the patience or the determination to study the dark side of the Church for such a long time. Consequently, they fail to know the truth, and they remain active Mormons.

If you want to learn that the Church is false, you have to be determined to know the truth, whatever the cost. Ironically, such determination is routinely taught by the Church. Mormonism teaches a lot of values such as perseverance and determination. People who research the Church and learn it is false are being good Mormons, to the extent that they are following these virtues. Missionaries are taught to sacrifice two years of their lives and focus on one thing. People who learn the dark side of the Church are sacrificing their time to focus on one thing.

It took me a lot of time to learn exactly why the Church was false. After graduating from BYU in April 1993, I went to the Special Collections room in the BYU library all the time, day after day, and read and read and read. I read books such as the ones metioned above. (BYU has these books, but they are carefully guarded and you have to leave your belongings at the entrance of the Special Collections room to be allowed to read them. You have to read them in full view of the librarians and you can't check them out.

Even though I read and read and read, it took a long time for me to learn the truth. One day, it dawned on me that the Church was not true, and I could not deny that knowledge. But that flash of insight did not come without painstaking reading, day after day after day.
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Thursday, Aug 19, 2010, at 07:34 AM
Glorious Persecution - The Backbone Of The Church
Posted By JoD3:360
PERSECUTION   -Guid-
There probably isn't a mormon older than 7 who hasn't heard that satan works extra hard to fight the true church.

The church must be true because so many people are against it.

Now, when poeople are getting too lax, and are taking the church and their membership for granted there arises the need for anew bogey man. And the safest bogeyman to erect is one that won't really affect the membership too much. The ERA camapign was pretty good at polarizing people but it hurt in the long run because it adversely affected the female membership, and the relationships between eternal companions.

So the new group of persecutors to show that the church is true has to be the Gays. True, the church has always had a model of morality that is expected, but the need for new persecution calls the church to fund an increasingly unpopluar position.

And it is working, for now. Why, just look at the righteous temples being assaulted by satan! Just look at the negativity that he has stirred into the hearts of the world.

Not only that, but now our tv ads are being mocked when we try to be nice and show the world how wonderful we are.

And so the membership huddles together against the storms of adversity and are reassured once again that the church really must be truer than ever and that they must stand firm and resolute. And despite the fact that it is just a bad neighbor no matter where it plants itself, it will always point the finger of scorn upon its unholy neighbors instead of in the mirror.

The church has always thrived when it could get some good old persecution happening, and is willing to let its members die in the plains, cast out its own members, or even get the whole nation ticked off on TV just to convince its membership that it is on the Lords side.
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Wednesday, Aug 18, 2010, at 08:40 AM
Book Of Mormon Monetary System
Posted By raymartin
BOOK OF MORMON EVIDENCES   -Guid-
BOOK OF MORMON MONETARY SYSTEM - Copyrights reserved. (Martin) 2004

An Examination of Nephite Coinage

While studying the Book of Mormon, one is often led across a very complicated passage of text in a manner that doesn't allow time to really digest what is being read. And after the reading, the reader is no better informed than before the reading. Such is the case relating to Nephite coinage. In Alma 11:22, I read, "And Zeezrom said unto him: Behold, here are six onties of silver, and all these will I give thee if thou wilt deny the existence of a Supreme Being," implying that six onties of silver were very valuable. This sparked my curiosity. So, I decided to find out if it is possible to ascertain, through logic and the given information, what the value of an onti was. The results, to the best of my ability but with no guaranty of accuracy, are found below.

According to my geology instructor at a University Of Nevada class for amateur prospectors, the natural ratio of silver to gold in the earth's crust is said to be about 15:1. This ratio varies widely from mine to mine, and mining district to mining district. For instance, in the great Comstock lode of Nevada, the ratio was only 1.3:1 silver/gold, while in the Tonopah, Nevada district the ratio was almost 100:1. In the Silver City district of Idaho, the ratio was about 30:1 and on the island of Sumatra the ratio was on the order of 10:1, for a ratio in the four mining districts of about 35.325:1. (See note 1, p. 3). However, with no information being found in Alma to offset the assumption that the average ratio there was 15:1, I have used this ratio in my formula. (See also, note 2, p. 3 for additional support).

Alma 11:5-11:19
11:5 Now the reckoning is thus--a senine of gold, a seon of gold, a shum of gold, and a limnah of gold.
11:6 A senum of silver, an amnor of silver, an ezrom of silver, and an onti of silver.
11:7 A senum of silver was equal to a senine of gold, and either for a measure of barley, and also for a measure of every kind of grain.
11:8 Now the amount of a seon of gold was twice the value of a senine.
11:9 And a shum of gold was twice the value of a seon. 11:10 And a limnah of gold was the value of them all.
11:11 And an amnor of silver was as great as two senums. 11:12 And an ezrom of silver was as great as four senums. 11:13 And an onti was as great as them all.
11:14 Now this is the value of the lesser numbers of their reckoning--

11:15 A shiblon is half of a senum; therefore, a shiblon for half a measure of barley.
11:16 A shiblum is a half of a shiblon.
11:17 And a leah is the half of a shiblum.
11:18 Now this is their number, according to their reckoning.
11:19 Now an antion of gold is equal to three [silver] shiblons.

THE VALUE OF THEM ALL

For clarification, I have converted the gold and silver pieces (Alma 11:4) into U.S. dollars reflecting a value placed upon each coin in the text.

It is estimated that a two gram gold coin, such as the "Small Liberty Head," minted by the U.S. in 1863, measuring approximately 3/8 inch in diameter and about 0.025 of an inch in thickness would be the smallest coin that could be used in ordinary commerce. A two gram silver coin called "The Dawn of Liberty" by its creator, Metric Monetary Mint, in 1974, measurers 1/2 inch in diameter by 1/16 of an inch in thickness. Both coins are in this writer’s posses¬sion. One gram = 0.0311034768 of a troy ounce. (But, see note 3). Therefore:

A senine = 2 grams of gold = $1.00 = 1 measure of barley
A seon = 4 grams of gold = $2.00 = 2 meas. of barley
A shum = 8 grams of gold = $4.00 = 4 meas. of barley
A limnah = 14 grams of gold = $7.00 = 7 meas. of barley
An antion = 3 grams of gold = $1.50 = 1 and a half meas. of barley.

Total 31 grams of Gold = $15.50 = approximately one troy ounce = approx. 15.5 measures of barley

A senum = 30 grams of silver = $1.00 = 1 meas. of barley
An amnor = 60 grams of silver = $2.00 = 2 meas. of barley
An ezrom = 120 grams of silver = $4.00 = 4 meas. of barley
An onti = 210 grams of silver = $7.00 = 7 meas. of barley
A shiblon = 15 grams of silver = $0.50 = 1/2 meas. of barley
A shiblum = 7.5 grams of silver = $0.25 and
A leah = 3.75 grams of silver = $0.125 = 1/8th meas. of barley

Total Total = 446.25 grams = 14.347 troy oz of silver = approx. 1.2 lbs. troy.
= $14.875 = 14.875 measures of barley.

Could a monetary system based upon sevenths of the largest coin in use be used in ordinary commerce? Or, using this rate of exchange, would the six onti coins ($42.00) offered by Zeezorm (Al. 11:22) really be of sufficient value to tempt Amulek to renounce God? (Al. 11:23). Would a judge work for a coin the size in diameter of a lead pencil, per day? a coin which would afford him only one measure of grain (see, Al. 11:3, Rev. 6:6). I have real difficulty with the coinage system described in the Book of Mormon. How would one make change in transactions involving anything other than grain? The value of the least coin, a leah, would be $0.125 (one fifty-sixth of an onti or a limnah) making transactions of less than one eighth of a measure of grain impossible.

Or, would anyone, (e.g., Zeezrom), be likely to carry six onti coins, weighing about 3.376 troy pounds of silver, around on his person, so as to be able to say to Amulek: "Behold, here are six onties of silver ..." (Al 11:22)?

An onti of silver would buy about seven measures of barley. If a judge worked seven days a week, his take home pay would be an onti. What did the ordinary worker make? If he earns a shiblum per day he could buy only about one and three quarters measures of grain with his seven days pay. The system just doesn't make sense when you are given enough time to think about it. See, note 4.

REFERENCES

Note 1. von Bernewitz, M. W, revised by Chellson, Harry C. Handbook for Prospectors and Operators of Small Mines, New York, McGraw-Hill, 1943, pp. 253, 255.

Note 2. According to Edward Gibbon's, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Volume I, ch. II, note 108, the ratio of Roman silver/gold coinage was fixed at about 14.4:1 during the reign of Constantine. See, Great Books of the Western World, Volume 40, Chicago, University of Chicago, 1952, p. 23.

Note 3. By International Agreement, the weight of one Kilogram of .995 gold is established at exactly 32.15 ounces troy.

Note 4. Judging from the best information I’ve been able to obtain, an essay on the subject by E. Leslie Carlson, Th.D., Professor of Biblical Backgrounds And Archaeology, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, appended to one of my Bibles, it appears that the Hebrews did not use a coinage system until their return from Babylonian Captivity in about 538 BC.
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Wednesday, Aug 18, 2010, at 08:35 AM
Can We Bury The Nahom Theory?
Posted By MichaelM
BOOK OF MORMON GEOGRAPHY   -Guid-
http://www.mormontimes.com/article/16...

"A number of ancient maps, for example, show a location — in this same spot in Arabia — that went by the name of Nehem (other maps spell the location as Nihm, Nehem, and even Naham, but they all refer to the same geographical location in southern Arabia). While a few of these maps may have been available to scholars in Joseph's day, it is highly unlikely that they were available to Joseph Smith."

Also from apologists:

http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2001_Arabia_and_the_Book_of_Mormon.html

The above link mentions Niebuhr's and d'Anville's books. It also says that neither were at Dartmouth when Joseph was a boy, nor were they available in Manchester, New York in the lending library.

Now for the rest of the story. Allegheny College in Meadville Pennsylvania is about 50 miles from Harmony. Its library began through donations from private individuals. In 1824, Thomas Jefferson wrote that he hoped his University of Virginia could someday possess the richness of Allegheny's library.

In the Allegheny's collection were both books that apologists claim were not available to Joseph Smith. Here is an 1823 catalog:

http://books.google.com/books?id=K5xA...

D'Anville's book on ancient geography is on page 18 - Niebuhr is on page 44.

Both books were fifty miles away from where the translation was being done.
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Wednesday, Aug 18, 2010, at 08:22 AM
Patriarchal Blessings - Phony Fortune Telling
Posted By ExCultMember
PATRIARCHAL BLESSING   -Guid-
One thing that is awfully suspicious about Mormon patriarchal blessings is that the more the patriarch knows about you, the more detailed your blessings becomes.

I was surprised as a young TBM to find out that other patriarchal blessings were much shorter than mine. My blessing was three pages long. It had many details about me and my life that no stranger could have known. BUT my patriarch was also my former bishop.

He added details about me such as "you will work on the councils of boys and men" (I was known for being passionate about Boy Scouts since the age of 11)and that on my mission my "tongue would finally be loosed" (I was an extremely shy, quiet kid who on more than one occasion flaked on talks I was assigned).

My mother recollects several sisters in the ward who were disappointed in their blessings because they were almost identical to each other. In this case the patriarch giving them their blessing did not know these women but gave them at the same time.

I have heard stories on this board of patriarchs "interviewing" the individual (before actually giving the blessing) fishing for details about their life that, not surprisingly, end up in the blessing. Similar to some phony fortune tellers who pick through a person's belongings when they aren't looking.

If the patriarchs are so inspired, acting as mouthpieces for God when delivering the patriarchal blessings, then why are they only individualized to the extent of how much the the patriarch knows about the person BEFOREHAND? Why would GOD'S blessing change depending on the patriarch's knowledge about the person receiving the blessing?