TPM2012

‘Ponzi’ Is Back! Perry Doubles Down On Social Security Attacks In Iowa (VIDEO)

‘Ponzi’ Is Back! Perry Doubles Down On Social Security Attacks In Iowa (VIDEO)

Earlier this week, it seemed Rick Perry was going to put the Ponzi scheme away forever. But have no fear, America: it’s back in Perry’s repertoire.

After taking a hammering from Mitt Romney and his rivals for using the metaphor to describe Social Security, Perry dialed things back a bit in a USA Today op-ed. The words “Ponzi scheme” didn’t appear, and Perry focused his attention on promising the retired and retiring that he’s not out to touch their entitlement. (The rest of us are not so lucky, however. Perry has talked about raising the retirement age to as high as 70 for workers 45 years old and younger, and/or scrapping the current system entirely in favor of state-run retirement schemes.)

Polls show the Ponzi stuff could be hurting Perry’s perceived electability among Republicans and it seems to turn-off independents. So it might make sense if he left the rhetoric on the cutting room floor.

Not happening. Here’s Perry in Iowa on Friday, both using “Ponzi Scheme” again and claiming his plan for Social Security is just part of the same discussion of entitlements started by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and his Medicare-eliminating (in favor of a vouchers) Republican budget plan:

But our young workers in particular, know that they’re going to have some options. Is it a private type of an option, do they want to allow the government to run the program? That should be their call. But we are and we will fix this program. I talked to Paul Ryan today, I told him, I said I thank you, for having the courage to stand up and talking about this and I said I’m proud to join you in this discussion with America. For clearly calling the social security program, that we have in place today, broken. It is broken. Kids know that paying into something that’s not going to be there into the future is called a Ponzi scheme.

Watch the video, clipped by American Bridge, the Democratic-leaning tracking outfit:

Evan McMorris-Santoro

Evan McMorris-Santoro has covered politics for TPM since 2009. Before that, he was a reporter at National Journal’s Hotline covering election 2008. He started his career covering local politics at newspapers in TN and his native NC.

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wial 5 pts

What I find very disturbing about this kind of nonsense is how memes coming from a Perry take so long to die. The other day on a meteorology website a climate change denier was repeating Perry's canard about Galileo being like a climate change skeptic (when in fact the reverse is true -- the climatologists are the Galileos fighting the battle of the new paradigm shift). Now the damage is done. Authoritarian minions do not abandon their loyalty to stupid ideas coming from their masters easily. Faith in nonsense is, after all, their stock in trade, their mark of loyalty, their connection to power. The more nonsensical, the better. Perry is like a Mardi Gras god throwing coins to the masses, and we are fools not to understand why they are so eagerly grabbed up and treasured. Which is fine, whether it's a tattoo or a piercing, or a truly bizarre belief, every complex adaptive system must have its recognition tags, its passwords -- just wish they would not be at the needless expense of the sane continuation of life as we know it. Can't they just imitate his boots or something? I get the braggadocio, but why oh why does it have to be so harmful, so lastingly harmful? Can't they just go back to football?

denim 5 pts

No doubt about it. Gov Perry would run Social Security as a Ponzi scheme...he is so familiar with how they work. However, Democrats have run Social Security as a legal life time annuity program.for decades and decades...even Bush I promised it would be there when it was our time to benefit. Perry thinks like a crook...it is that simple.

inedalo 5 pts

here's a better-than-perry plan to save Soc.Sec. - raise retirement age to 75 or 80. raise premiums for all, espec. the rich. and politicians get an extra tax to pay because they are such frauds and fools.

that way most people will die before they collect a penny. Soc Sec is saved, QED. good plan?

better than teaparty beating around the bush. forget christianity, guys, it's the survival of the fittest and the poor,weak, sick can just go out in the woods and relieve us of the burden of supporting them. in this taxes can be lowered, no tax for millionaires or billionaires since they "create jobs" ! hey hey, LOL

hoosierpoet 16 pts

What is up with the Coca Cola backdrop for his garbage? No more Diet Coke for me

puppycow2000 5 pts

hoosierpoet I was wondering the same thing. Is this an official endorsement? If it is, no more Coke for me.

danmacch 5 pts

The more money Perry takes in, the more he can invest in soliciting money.

JohnMcCSF 6 pts

Joking with a fellow Dem, I shared my new Perry slogan

"Republicans want a choice not an echo, a man not a Mittens"

His deadpan - "Democrats too"

JohnMcCSF 6 pts

Well Double DUH ..and you left out the Time interview where he really slammed the unnamed DC cocktail crowd on this

HUFFPO Headline:

Rick Perry Social Security 'Ponzi Scheme' Criticism Fails To Faze Republicans: Poll

The Decimator’s position has been central to GOP opposition since the day SS was passed nearly 80 years ago.

It’s not like 75% of Republicans today don’t agree with him

I guess the only one who is surprised is the hapless Mittens....chocking on his Scotch Rocks???

TIME

"There may be someone who is an established Republican who circulates in the cocktail circuit that would find some of my rhetoric to be inflammatory or what have you, but I’m really talking to the American citizen out there. I think American citizens are just tired of this political correctness and politicians who are tiptoeing around important issues. They want a decisive leader. I’m comfortable that the rhetoric I have used was both descriptive and spot on. Calling Social Security a Ponzi scheme has been used for years. I don’t think people should be surprised that terminology would be used...

I don’t get particularly concerned that I need to back off from my factual statement that Social Security, as it is structured today, is broken. If you want to call it a Ponzi scheme, if you want to say it’s a criminal enterprise, if you just want to say it’s broken — they all get to the same point. We need, as a country, to have an adult conversation. Don’t try to scare the senior citizens and those who are on Social Security that it’s somehow going to go away with the mean, old heartless Republican."

Whenwillthisnightmareend 9 pts

I believe I do;

I believe it's true;

I believe exactly what they tell me to.

I believe i do;

I believe it;s true.

I'm a simple guy; I believe.

Tom Paxton

This is the Tea Party anthym, it cannot get any more specific.

truth-spin 12 pts

Can we stop with this "raising the retirement age" bullshit? No one is going to raise the retirement age because there is no such thing. You will always be able to retire when you want and think you can afford to stop working.

What you mean is that he plans to raise the age at which you can get full benefits from Social Security. That's very different. Plus, unless his plan is different than what exists now, you will still have the option to start your benefits earlier, at a reduced rate. It's a simple actuarial progression calculation; granted it is one with significant consequences for million of working Americans. But let's inject some honesty into the debate, from all directions please.

truth > spin 5 pts

Downriver Is that duhhhh, no shit. Or duhhhh, please wipe the drool off my chin and explain this again?

rough_draft 8 pts

"What you mean is that he plans to raise the age at which you can get full benefits from Social Security."

Seems like a pointless quibble. I'm sure that for many if not most people, they couldn't afford to retire before receiving full Medicare and Social Security benefits. The consequences of raising the eligibility age could be dire for many, many people. Whether you call it "retirement age" or "eligibility age", people know what it means. It's not just semantics.truth-spin

Wild Willy 16 pts

rough_draft Don't knock pointless quibbles - they're truth-spin's stock in trade

Allan J Krueger 7 pts

Make Texas a country and appoint Perry to be Prezident ! How much do you think he pays for a haircut? Seems to me that was a big scandal a few years ago!

We need a good candidate! Where are Frank Capra and Gary Cooper when we need them?

rough_draft 8 pts

Keep digging your own grave, you fucking asshole . . .

Maybe 81 pts

rough_draft But dig it very, very slowly so you don't reach bottom until after the Repubs pick a nominee.

free.with.ads 5 pts

if you look closely 'ponzi scheme' is blow dried into his hair

kind of like a 21st century whites only album hidden message.

if you can hear the dog whistle ....

leftflank 23 pts

There is no Ponzi scheme or Fonzi scheme but there is a Yahoo cowboy wanna-be Governor repeating things that he heard on the prarie that sound bad.

It's a six-shooter scheme or Perry scam at best.

jjg.denis.robert 9 pts

Here's the facts: if Social Security is a ponzi scheme, because today's beneficiaries are being paid out from the contributions of future beneficiaries, then guess what's a ponzi scheme as well: EVERY SINGLE FRIKKIN' INSURANCE POLICY IN THE WORLD.

teabuggery 10 pts

jjg.denis.robert

The essential Ponzi scheme attribute: The system is destined to collapse because the earnings, if any, are less than the payments to investors.

SS can live on in perpetuity with some very modest changes on the earnings side (say double the amount of income subject to SS tax) - it is not a Ponzi scheme.

natsiva 6 pts

Look you liberals are pathetic .....I was and still I am a diehard Bill Clinton Democrat. But the Democratic Party corrupt process stole the nomination from Hillary. Had the Democratic Party has the same type of electoral college type of voting system, Hillary would have won the nomination without the superdelegates. Superdelegates are corrupt union and party establishment bastards. They are the ones behind this current malaise today in the Democratic Party. There would NOT be a Tea Party if Hillary is president and democratic congress will still be in power. Not only BHO is going to loose 2012, the Democratic congress is going to loose another 63 seats in 2012. Wait and watch.....You guys should know why Chris Christy is popular because of plain-speak. So does Perry. I am intent to vote for him if he is the nominee of GOP because he is a conservative Democrat in GOP clothes.

sjt2115 7 pts

natsiva Get bent, PUMA Troll.

<i>Democratic Party has the same type of electoral college type of voting system, Hillary would have won the nomination without the superdelegates</i>

And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle. Are you really still on about this? It was 3 freaking years ago!

<i> There would NOT be a Tea Party if Hillary is president and democratic congress will still be in power.</i>

I bet you are actually dumb enough to believe that. The Right HATES the Clintons, Hillary especially. They made up the Tea Party out of whole cloth, and they would have done the same (or worse!) to Hillary. Grow up, tool.

Doremus Jessup 2.0 103 pts

sjt2115 Natsiva is a fake liberal concern troll and not very good at it either. The line about Chris Christie (which he couldn't even spell correctly) was a dead giveaway.

Kristen Oberhauser Bishop 9 pts

Doremus Jessup 2.0 "You Liberals are pathetic" kind of set me off too. I think Clinton would agree that he is a liberal at heart, if asked. Bill Clinton would never want to dismantle social security. There is a world of difference here.

Maybe 81 pts

Doremus Jessup 2.0 Claiming to be a die hard Clinton supporter who plans to vote for Perry also undermines Natsiva's credibility just a bit.

Frank Civet 5 pts

Maybe Where were they, hibernating under rocks and garbage

Maybe 81 pts

sjt2115 +1 The Tea Party actually existed before Obama was elected. They just didn't use the name.

Frank Civet 5 pts

sjt2115 guess what, the democrats want him to win the nomination!!

Doremus Jessup 2.0 103 pts

natsiva I realize that pretending to be a concerned liberal is difficult but you really, really suck at it.

teabuggery 10 pts

natsiva

So Perry knows why Christie is popular?

Christie is an aggressive, condescending, asshole... who is fat... no, obese.

AJM3 20 pts

Nice try troll. No Democrat of any stripe would fall for that Ponzi scheme nonsense. Reiterating the same lie like a parrot is not plain speaking -- it is plain stupidity. natsiva

leftflank 23 pts

natsiva Then how do you explain Bill winning & you approving of him so much, eh?

Your crystal ball is as fuzzy as your brain.

Maybe 81 pts

natsiva Listen, are you always this stupid or are you just making a special effort today?

Captain Crunch 19 pts

natsiva Then you will have wasted your vote, assuming Perry even gets the nomination. Christie and Perry are popular with the Republican base only. That's about 31% of the voting public, not enough to win anything nationally.

Christie's poll numbers have tanked in NJ (I lived in NJ and they hate him) and Perry's Texas jobs miracle is collapsing under the facing of facts.

Hillary would not have changed anything. Get over it , she LOST the nomination, you reasons notwithstanding. The GO(T)P would be doing the same thing to get her...why wouldn't they? You think McConnell, Boehner, Cantor and the GO(T)P would like her BETTER?

You conservatives are pathetic. Eight years of Bush/Cheney have ruined the economy (51% still blame Bush); do you really think Romney or Perry won't go back to the same deficit-spending policies? If you think they will be different, you don't understand history (see Reagan's tax increases, all 7 of them).

The Tea Party is an excuse for racism. Nothing but old, white Republicans, backed by the Koch Brothers, who claim to 'want to take the country back". From whom? For whom? Maybe the black guy in the White House? They want to take the country back to the 1950's, when only old, white men were in charge. They use the Constitution, the economy and false claims about socialism, Marxism and Communism (read: FEAR) and other stalking horses to cloak their bigotry! It's the last gasp of a dying party who can't face that Blacks and Hispanics will be a voting majority in this county in 20+ years and NONE of them will ever vote Republican! They must believe, wrongly, that if they can break Obama, it'll hold off the tide....what will change the tide is their passing in 20+ years! Once all the old, inflexible, white males die off, the furor will settle (I bet is settles a great deal when Obama is re-elected; the Koch Brothers are businessmen and when they see their investment in the Tea Party failing, they will pull back their dollars and the Tea Party will fade away to the dustbin of history, like the Whigs!

bilweeler 5 pts

natsiva

Hilary screwed up her campaign...especially by not having a strategy for caucus states. Obama ran up the score in the caucus states, and she fell behind.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1738496,00.html

Priv8teer 5 pts

What's really strange is that he is quoting Paul Krugman when he calls SS a "Ponzi Scheme."

teabuggery 10 pts

Priv8teer Bullshit!

Here's what Krugman wrote:

"Social Security is structured from the point of view of the recipients as if it were an ordinary retirement plan: what you get out depends on what you put in. So it does not look like a redistributionist scheme. In practice it has turned out to be strongly redistributionist, but only because of its Ponzi game aspect, in which each generation takes more out than it put in. Well, the Ponzi game will soon be over, thanks to changing demographics, so that the typical recipient henceforth will get only about as much as he or she put in (and today's young may well get less than they put in)."

1) Social Security is an insurance program, not a retirement savings plan.

2) Krugman appears to have been commenting on people's misperception about how it works.

3) He uses the phrase "Ponzi game aspect" which is simply NOT the same as calling it a Ponzi scheme.

4) Closing - "so that the typical recipient henceforth will get only about as much as he or she put in (and today's young may well get less than they put in)." So? do you expect to get more out of your homeowner's, auto or life insurance than you put in? Why? Because insurance is NOT a retirement plan.

Admittedly, Krugman used poor word choices (gee, he's not perfect? We libs are so confused!)

Perry, on the other hand wants to kill SS - just like all winger ideologues.

Mr.E. 34 pts

As Bunsen Jude would say, "Amazing!"

Not only is he doubling down on the recognized worst political position in the country, but he's voluntarily associating and aligning himself with Paul Ryan. We've got Perry driving himself off a cliff, Romney going around and around like he only has tires on one side of his tour bus. Bachmann looking into a gas tank holding a match to see if it's empty, Palin jumping up and down to get noticed on the wrong corner, after the parade route was changed, and a bunch of other has-been white guys left at the station after the bus has pulled out.

leftflank 23 pts

Mr.E.

Perry already doubled down over a week ago. This at least a triple down or the dreaded double-double down. There's only the triple dog dare left to go down on. Romney is in perprtual loser mode but still has Bachman's number. And nobody gives two shits about Palin or how many drugs she uses or with which rent-a-boy. The other has-beens are just steps closer to never wil-bes ever again.

Flying Squid 14 pts

Don't worry, old people. It's not YOU I want to fuck over, it's your KIDS and GRANDKIDS! What do you think I am, a monster?

salt_bagel 5 pts

arken No no, charitable organizations will surely step in to help these youths. You just underestimate the power of freedom.

matt48 7 pts

salt_bagel

That's right! And it's so inspiring to hold onto the image of my daughter as a destitute old woman begging charitable organizations for food and rent money. For she will be freely begging--not having social security money forced on her by the gummint.

Maybe 81 pts

matt48 And when she's 80 she can use her government Medicare voucher to find a great plan with a private health insurance company.

bruce.c.webb 14 pts

salt_bagel arken Absolutely!

With Workhouses and Poor Houses. They were working great! Just ask Ebeneezer Scrooge! Known job creator! After all he kept Bob Cratchitt on the payroll. I guess putting him in the Cantor-Ryan Humanitarian Hall of Fame.

Maybe 81 pts

arken Do you have any doubt that if the right wingers had the power to gut SS they wouldn't also nickle-and-dime the current recipients?

Rum Jim 5 pts

Trust that Rick Perry will not sell out your Social Security payroll taxes to Wall Street for $5000. No. He will get the big bucks from the crooks on The Street, you will get the fees, the losses, the 'retire at 75 on $450/month' scam, and the visual diarrhea of political campaign commercials touting his honesty and integrity the last 30 days before he runs for re-election.

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