Showing posts with label Dani Spinosa. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Dani Spinosa. Show all posts

Wednesday, September 25, 2024

Toronto International Festival of Authors’ Small Press Market (part one, : Devon Rae + Norma Cole,

Once more, Kate Siklosi and Gap Riot Press helped curate and organize the annual Small Press Market as part of the Toronto International Festival of Authors! And I was totally there for that, with a swath of recent above/ground press titles and my new short story collection with University of Alberta Press and Christine’s new hybrid memoir with Book*hug Press. Naturally, there were plenty of amazing publishers and items there as well [see my two notes from last year here and the four posts I made around the first year here], including Anstruther Press, Gap Riot Press, knife|fork|book, Gordon Hill Press/The Porcupines’ Quill, Inc., room 302 books, Proper Tales Press, Book*hug Press, Nietzsche’s Brolly, serif of nottingham, etcetera (with Simulacrum Press and Puddles of Sky Press unable to attend this time around). Don’t you wish you could have made it? At least there’s another small press fair coming up in Toronto (Mississauga, actually)that I’m participating in soon, for those folk who wanted to catch some further small press excitement (where Christine is on a panel with her new book as part of the same event/festival that day). And you know about the 30th anniversary edition of the ottawa small press book fair happening on Saturday, November 16, yes? OH, AND IF YOU ARE IN OTTAWA COME OUT TO THE LAUNCH OF MY SHORT STORIES TONIGHT!

Here are a couple of items I picked up at this year’s event:

Vancouver BC/Toronto ON: I’ve been an admirer of the work of Vancouver poet Devon Rae for a while now [see my interview with her via Touch the Donkey], so was very pleased to see a copy of her chapbook debut, THIRTEEN CONVERSATIONS WITH MY BODY (Toronto ON: Anstruther Press, 2024). Rae’s work, at least what I’ve seen, is leaning into what I presume will be an eventual full-length collection of very sharp prose poems around the body, with titles such as “My Lips,” “My Left Leg,” “My Left Shoulder” and “My Breasts,” offering narrative threads and conversation almost as a kind of update on what the late Toronto poet bpNichol (1944-1988) was playing with across his Selected Organs: Parts of an Autobiography (Windsor ON: Black Moss Press, 1987) and eventual, posthumous, organ music: parts of an autobiography (Black Moss Press, 2012). Rae’s poems offer a conversation with and around bodies very different than Nichol’s serious play, one instead that works through and with the differences and culturally-loaded complications of women’s bodies; she writes bodies as both physical and emotional space, one impacted far too often from the outside. “That elsewhere so close we can almost / touch it.” she writes, as part of “Conversation with My Night Body.” These prose poems are damned sharp, and you should be paying attention to them. Rae packs enormous amounts in very small spaces, yet her poems are composed with a deceptive ease of lyric and propulsive flow. As the poem “Conversations with My Uterus” reads:

You are shaped like the child I may not have. I think of myself curled up inside my mother years ago – the fullness of her uterus and the emptiness of mine. Sometimes, I want to return to that dream place. I know she loved being pregnant, I’ve seen the photographs, belly swelling in an Armani dress. And I wonder if I too will become a kiln or remain a vacant room.

Dani Spinosa, Gap Riot Press

San Francisco CA/Toronto ON: Oh, the delight of a new title by Toronto-born American poet, translator and visual artist Norma Cole [see my review of her 2010 To Be At Music: Essays & Talks here], her chapbook RAINY DAY (Toronto ON: knife|fork|book, 2024). Another of Toronto poet and publisher Kirby’s gracefully-produced items, RAINY DAY is a collection of twenty-one short, sharp lyrics offering a myriad of narrative directions across few words and very short spaces. As the poem “Critical Miss” begins: “permanently / beyond chagrin // intrinsic—what is / trinsic?” Alternating between prose poems and slightly longer sequences against short bursts, Cole composes the long line of each poem across a kind of condensed point-form, offering a rhythmic sequence of bursts held in breath, almost as hesitations, or a lyric caught in the lungs. “the darker / room // he talks / blocks,” the unpunctuated four-page poem “NO ACCOUNT SYLLABLES” writes, “of space / and // books of / time // I think / your // hand on / paper // least exercise / leaves [.]” Her lyric compactness clusters, stretches, holds breath. All of which, of course, makes me eager to think that we might be closer to a further full-length by Cole at some point soon, hopefully.

Mum’s the Word

saturation not able inside the magnitudes
scorpion suppression oppression falling failing
oblivious silent objects


Thursday, June 17, 2021

Ongoing notes: mid-June, 2021: Dani Spinosa + Cameron Anstee

Oh, I know. Remember when this would have been the time of year when we’d be gearing up for the spring edition of the ottawa small press book fair? I’m hoping we can return to such by the fall, but until then, did you see the interviews I posted with an array of book fair exhibitors? And of course, you should be keeping a regular eye on what is appearing at periodicities: ajournal of poetry and poetics. Further to that, the lifting of current provincial lockdown means I’ve been able to get back into the printers (for the first time since the end of April), so above/ground press titles are beginning to emerge once more. We are slowly beginning to emerge from the dark.

Toronto ON: Toronto poet, editor and publisher Dani Spinosa’s latest is the chapbook-length Visual Poetry for Women, produced as number 8 in Anstruther Press’ “Manifesto Series (2021), a prose manifesto that really furthers and examines some incredible activity not only happening (including Amanda Earl’s remarkable Judith, which I have yet to properly discuss), but being discussed in a larger way for possibly the very first time. Spinosa argues fully for women to “seize the means of literary production,” including digital production, hand-printing and other means of production, editorial and distribution. She argues heavily for seizing one’s own digital space, and in many ways, this work is an updated and forceful counterpoint to Virginia Woolf’s request for a “Room of One’s Own.” As visual poet and producer of visual works by others, this is a matter-of-fact reminder that women need to create their own spaces to work, publish, critique and be seen, instead of simply waiting for someone else to do it for them. This is a glorious manifesto, and I look forward to seeing how readers might respond. As her manifesto opens:

This is not a manifesto urging us to remedy the persistent gender gap in visual poetics. I’ve done that work already. And other, more thorough historians have done that work better. Alex Balgiu and Mónica de la Torre’s Women in Concrete Poetry 1959-1979 is illuminating for the gaps it reveals even in my knowledge. Other writers like Amanda Earl and Jessica Smith have done brilliant work collecting and highlighting more recent work by women and gender non-conforming poets and language artists. That work is important. It serves to remedy several decades of neglect. But I arrive here with a hunger for overwriting, a desire to stop revision, and present instead this voice louder than the story that’s already been told, that’s still telling. I want to carve several new names into the concrete.

Welcome, ladies. Now we’re writing like we own the place.

Ottawa ON: It is lovely to both see that Ottawa poet, editor, publisher (Apt. 9 Press) and critic Cameron Anstee, after a short pause, has begun producing chapbooks again, with his own LINES (St. Andrew Books, June 2021), a collection of nineteen short, sharp poems. The author of a handful of chapbooks over the years, I think this might be the first chapbook of his that has appeared since before the publication of his full-length debut, Book of Annotations (Picton ON: Invisible Publishing, 2018) [see my review of such here], so clearly he’s been slowly, quietly, writing again as well. Produced in a numbered edition of fifty-one copies, LINES furthers Anstee’s exploration into the miniature, exploring the smallest moments and movements, heavily influenced by the work of Nelson Ball, as well as works by jwcurry, Mark Truscott and Stuart Ross. His poems explore structure and landscape, moments and examinations, and writing out only what is essential. It is incredible to realize just how much time one could spend getting lost in his few, perfectly-placed words.

POEM

cover the warm bread
with a small towel


Friday, July 24, 2020

new from above/ground press: Maloukis, Burgoyne, Touch the Donkey, Downs, eckhoff, tierney, Beaulieu, Drescher, Solomon, Spinosa + Cantrell,

Cloud Game with Plums
Rose Maloukis
$5

See link here for more information

TENTACULUM SONNETS
Sarah Burgoyne
$4

See link here for more information

Touch the Donkey [a small poetry journal] #26
with new poems by Tessa Bolsover, Jill Magi, Orchid Tierney, Amelia Does, Stan Rogal, katie o’brien, Chus Pato (trans. Erín Moure), Erín Moure and Lily Brown.
$7

See link here for more information

Another Tricky Day
Buck Downs
$5

See link here for more information

dieting Herb Wit
kevin mcpherson eckhoff
$5

See link here for more information

my beatrice
orchid tierney
$5

See link here for more information

CABARET
Derek Beaulieu
$4

See link here for more information

BLATTA
Julia Drescher
$5

See link here for more information

FLORALS
Misha Solomon
$5

See link here for more information

Civilization
Dani Spinosa
$4

See link here for more information

Year Zero
Andrew Cantrell
$5

See link here for more information

keep an eye on the above/ground press blog for author interviews, new writing, reviews, upcoming readings and tons of other material;

published in Ottawa by above/ground press
June/July 2020
a/g subscribers receive a complimentary copy of each


To order, send cheques (add $1 for postage; in US, add $2; outside North America, add $5) to: rob mclennan, 2423 Alta Vista Drive, Ottawa ON K1H 7M9. E-transfer or PayPal at at rob_mclennan (at) hotmail.com or the PayPal button (above). Scroll down here to see various backlist titles, or click on any of the extensive list of names on the sidebar (many, many things are still in print).

Review copies of any title (while supplies last) also available, upon request. and don't forget the Black Lives Matter above/ground press chapbook give-away!

Forthcoming chapbooks by: Ava Hofmann, Billy Mavreas, ryan fitzpatrick, Paul Perry, Franco Cortese, Zane Koss, Julia Drescher (another chapbook!), Dennis Cooley, a collaboration between Sarah Burgoyne and her mother, Barry McKinnon, Jérôme Melançon and Kemeny Babineau (and probably others!) as well as new issues of G U E S T [a journal of guest editors] guest-edited by Jim Johnstone, Karen Schindler and Michael Sikkema [did you see his call for submissions here?]! above/ground press is now twenty-seven years old! (but you probably already knew that, right?);

STAY HOME! STAY SAFE! WASH YOUR DAMNED HANDS! WEAR A MASK! etcetera. we will see you again in person once we've the all-clear.

Friday, June 12, 2020

Dani Spinosa, OO: Typewriter Poems



It is an academic truism that the avant-garde has been dominated not simply by men, but by a masculine set of ideals. This may be true, but we cannot let the conversation stop there. experimental poetry is a vanguardist tradition, and one that is often conceived of as a solitary act. But, in this book—and always—I envision a literature that is built on writing as an act of sharing, of becoming stronger and more beautiful in the ways that our writing reads back over the writing that came before it, and leaves itself open and unfinished for the writing that comes after. So, hidden in the vanguardism of the avant-garde is a deeply communal, feminist poetics of derivation, homage, and love. My poems in this collection work to bring the feminist, communal poetics to the fore of the visual poem through the merger of the analogue technology of the typewriter and digital intervention.
            OO is deeply citational and works to forge a community out of visual poets who continue to create softness in a kind of poetics strangely named concrete. This project takes up a conversational, communal poetics, quoting “lines” from visual and concrete poems and playing fast and loose with the form of the glosa, where four lines from an original poem are repurposed in a new poem as the final lines of four ten-line stanzas. (“Introduction”)

I was very pleased to get my hands Toronto poet, editor, critic and publisher Dani Spinosa’s full-length visual poetry debut, OO: Typewriter Poems (Picton ON: Invisible Publishing, 2020). As she suggests in her introduction, concrete and visual poetries have long been male-dominated, and the female practitioners over the past few decades, in Canada, at least, have been far less acknowledged. jwcurry has repeatedly referred to Judith Copithorne, for example, a Vancouver poet who has been producing and publishing visual and concrete works since the late 1950s, as “our first lady of concrete,” but her work is often overlooked (for a variety of reasons, one might argue) for the sake of others of her generation who were more ambitious, prolific and male. This kind of reclamation work is reminiscent of Dean Irvine’s work on the late Canadian poets Dorothy Livesay and Anne Wilkinson through Archive for Our Times: Previously Uncollected and Unpublished Poems of Dorothy Livesay (Arsenal Pulp Press, 1998) and Heresies: The Complete Poems of Anne Wilkinson, 1924–61 (Véhicule Press, 2003), or the more recent volume WANTING EVERYTHING: The Collected Works of Gladys Hindmarch, edited by Deanna Fong and Karis Shearer (Vancouver BC: Talonbooks, 2020) [see my review of such here]. There is so much work that gets overlooked for arbitrary reasons, including gender, and these reclamations become an essential literary service.

"Marianne Holm Hansen"
While I give Derek Beaulieu an enormous amount of credit for doing much of the work of bringing concrete and visual poetry back into the Canadian mainstream (engaging far more with the literary journals and the small/micro press than, say, Christian Bök) from the late 1990s onward, there did seem a shift in the conversation around visual and concrete poetries when Dani Spinosa and her pal, Kate Siklosi (the co-founders/editors/publishers of Gap Riot Press, a Toronto-based feminist chapbook press) appeared on the scene a few years ago with a fresh set of eyes, an eagerness to learn everything they could about visual and concrete works, and a healthy suspicion for how things had always been. Poems, chapbooks and statements by Spinosa and Siklosi began to emerge, working to question and challenge how writing is made, and how writing is seen.

Again, as Spinosa writes in her introduction, the visual pieces in this collection are built as part of a conversation with those who have engaged with the form, composing her own visual pieces with titles after other practitioners of the art—Judith Copithorne, Steve McCaffery, Shant Basmajian, Johanna Drucker, John Riddell, derek beaulieu, Bob Cobbing, et al—and utilizing those pieces as small studies around each individual’s work and practices. One could say that this collection is both Spinosa’s personal study in the history of visual and concrete poetry as well as a collection of original works. As she suggests, she brings herself into the conversation. The collection offers fifty named poems set in five sections, with a final section of ten further poems, structuring her sections in thematic gatherings, the titles of which play off bpNichol’s infamous poem carved into the pavement along bpNichol Lane: “A LOOK,” “A LACK,” “A LIGN,” “A LOBE” and “A LONE.” The ten-poem section “A LACK,” for example, focuses on women visual poets, as “A LIGN” collects a series of poems named for poets such as bill bissett, bpNichol, Jiri Maloch, Pierre Garnier and David Aylward, who, incidentally, was the author of the first book produced by Coach House Press back in the early 1960s. There is something quite delightful in seeing Aylward’s name here, and numerous other names that haven’t been on the radar of Canadian writing and publishing for some time. She’s clearly done her research, and if one were even to put together an anthology of or essay on the history of concrete and visual poetries, this would be the list of names included. Or, given Spinosa’s deliberate inclusion of these multiple women practitioners, this is the list of names that should be included; and hopefully, in part through Spinosa’s work, a list of names that will no longer be overlooked.

The shift in visual and concrete poetries in Canada over the past few years has been interesting to see, as Spinosa and Siklosi, both, seemed to emerge simultaneously alongside other poets working to re-shape the art, from Eric Schmaltz in Toronto, Sacha Archer in nearby Burlington, Michael e. Casteels in Kingston and Kyle Flemmer in Calgary, among others. Each of these poets are exploring fascinating directions, opening up the boundaries of visual and concrete works, and Spinosa is now the third poet in this list to achieve a full-length published debut, after Casteels’ The Last White House at the End of the Row of White Houses appeared in 2016 [see my review of such here], and Schmaltz’ SURFACES appeared in 2018 [see my review of such here], both of which also appeared through Invisible Publishing. As well, there is an enormous amount of play evidenced through Spinosa’s visuals, something that certain strains of visual poetries have managed to forget over the years; the play of the late Toronto poet bpNichol was such an essential part of his work and his life that the lack of it in subsequent works is noticeable. With all of the serious intent and study, where is the play? Dani Spinosa is clearly having a glorious time, and it shows.

The collection ends with a conversation between Spinosa and Siklosi, their “‘Like, That is Femmeship’: An afterword in feminist conversation between Dani Spinosa and Kate Siklosi,” a back-and-forth that articulates some of the issues their works attempt to address. As they write:

D: But for some reason that still persists in this niche little field of visual poetry. And also, like, I had no idea about the long history of women who were doing this particular work.

K: Yeah. You wouldn’t have heard of that, right?

D: No. It’s been cold discovering women writers who were doing typewriter stuff when I kind of wouldn’t have known that before. And also, as I’ve been fleshing out this project, someone whom I have been working with has been like, “Oh, cool, I’d never heard of Bentivoglio or Hansen.” So, it’s not that there wasn’t a readership for it. People were interested in finding out which other women had been working in visual poetry. I just always feel like I understood the process of writing as writing on top of other people who had been writing before me.

Thursday, April 02, 2020

12 or 20 (second series) questions with Dani Spinosa


Dani Spinosa is a Canadian scholar and poet. Her work investigates the role of authorship and anarchist politics in digital and print-based experimental poetry. She is the author of one scholarly manuscript, nine peer-reviewed academic articles, four poetry chapbooks, and over a dozen literary publications. She is the managing editor of the Electronic Literature Directory, an adjunct professor of English at York University and Sheridan College, and a founding co-editor of the feminist experimental micropress Gap Riot.  

1 - How did your first book or chapbook change your life? How does your most recent work compare to your previous? How does it feel different?
My first chapbook was the first set of glosas I published with no press in 2017. It changed my life, I guess, because someone wanted to "read" or look at my work, and that felt strange because I thought (still think) they were just silly little word pictures. But, it turns out lots of people like looking at silly little word pictures. My forthcoming book, OO: Typewriter Poems (Invisible Publishing), is the edited and more thought out version of that early work. So, it's different in that that first no press chapbook was my first foray into sending the glosas out in the world. But, they are the same project in that they will always feel tentative and unfinished, just how I like them. 

2 - How did you come to poetry first, as opposed to, say, fiction or non-fiction?
I came to poetry through a high school English teacher named Glenn Hayes. And he loved poetry in a way that didn't feel elitist or fancy. He loved it with his heart, with his body. He helped us make a poetry magazine at our high school and he made it seem cool. In fact, it wasn't for a long time after high school that I realized how totally weird we were. But the magazine was cool, and so were Mr. Hayes's bohemian days where we didn't have to wear our uniform, and so was the presentation assignment we did where we impersonated a poet and I came to class acting like Anne Sexton. So, I never really thought about fiction or non-fiction. I fell in love with poems, with poetry, in high school and we've been pretty monogamous ever since. 

3 - How long does it take to start any particular writing project? Does your writing initially come quickly, or is it a slow process? Do first drafts appear looking close to their final shape, or does your work come out of copious notes?
The project itself is slow to start, mostly because I have to convince myself it's worth doing. The glosas started as a post-it note that sat on my desk for weeks, and then one poem, and then that poem sat around forever, and then... eventually, two, three, four poems. Once I convince myself the project is good, they just roll out. I can sometimes do seven or eight in a day if I'm feeling the project. Once I finish digitally editing the poems the first time, I rarely ever revisit them. In fact, editing OO with Gary Barwin was the first time I really went back and edited this vispo at all. I like sending out first drafts, imperfect things. It's who I am. 

4 - Where does a poem usually begin for you? Are you an author of short pieces that end up combining into a larger project, or are you working on a "book" from the very beginning?
I'm pretty much always either working on a book project from the very beginning. If I'm not, then I'm doing little one offs like the Mariah Carey series or the "Chant Uhm" sound poem. Otherwise, I like working towards a larger project. I need to see an end goal or I'm piss poor at productivity. 

5 - Are public readings part of or counter to your creative process? Are you the sort of writer who enjoys doing readings?
Oh girl, I like to be at a mic for any reason. I like to think about how I'd read my poems to an audience as I write. I like to pretend I'm giving readings when I'm home alone. I like to be on stage and, for the most part, I think people like coming to my readings because I'm really silly. Also adorable. 

6 - Do you have any theoretical concerns behind your writing? What kinds of questions are you trying to answer with your work? What do you even think the current questions are?
With OO, I was asking the question: how can I love and hate a tradition at the same time. I'm working on a new project, feminist responses to Greek mythology, and my question has become: how does a femme move in a book, in a story? how does she get stuck? 

7 – What do you see the current role of the writer being in larger culture? Does s/he even have one? What do you think the role of the writer should be?
I think a writer is a person in a community. I think writers should be writing to connect, converse, commune. 

8 - Do you find the process of working with an outside editor difficult or essential (or both)?
I was really scared of it at first. But, working with Gary Barwin on OO was wonderful. He pointed out things in my poems I didn't realize were there, and he pushed me. And also, like, this girl likes some validation, so that was nice. I think editing is just one more version of connection, conversation, community. So, for me, it was essential. It changed how I viewed the poems a bit.

9 - What is the best piece of advice you've heard (not necessarily given to you directly)?
In an episode of What's the Tee with Michelle Visage, RuPaul said, basically, "Do you want to be right? or do you want to be happy?" And that's good advice for life, for sure, but I also found it so useful for writing. I write now until I'm happy with what I'm looking at, and I'm not so worried about the work being "right." It's been liberating. All my most important life lessons have come from RuPaul Charles. 

10 - How easy has it been for you to move between genres (poetry to critical prose)? What do you see as the appeal?
VERY DIFFICULT. Poetry makes me hate writing criticism. Criticism makes me miss writing poetry. I think the answer here is that I'm over academic writing, but maybe I just have to find a critical voice that is more like, more informed by, my poetic voice. If I have either of those things at all, that is. 

11 - What kind of writing routine do you tend to keep, or do you even have one? How does a typical day (for you) begin?
I don't have any routine, girl. I write when and where I can. When I'm contract teaching, I never know what my schedule is going to look like. So, I write when I can, and when I have a project I'm working on. Today, for example, was a writing day. I woke up, decided on the poems over coffee, went to the library, grabbed another coffee, wrote the first draft of the words to about six of them, and then got sucked into a bunch of busy work before I took out the typewriter. So, I'm answering these questions in the hope that they bring me back into the poems. If that doesn't work, then it's more coffee and one more try. If I still can't find the shape of the poems by 4:00pm, I'll give up, smoke a bowl, and watch Drag Race

12 - When your writing gets stalled, where do you turn or return for (for lack of a better word) inspiration?
Coffee. Bowl. Drag Race. 

13 - What fragrance reminds you of home?
OH GOODNESS WHAT A QUESTION. I feel ashamed to have the most stereotypical answer, but... meatballs in my mom's sauce. Nothing smells more like home than my mother's homemade meatballs. She bakes them on cookie sheets, and as a kid I vividly remember standing with her in the kitchen picking pieces of fat off the cookie sheet and eating it with my fingers. I can smell the sauce in the background, the salt, the basil. Oh man, I am so hungry right now. 

14 - David W. McFadden once said that books come from books, but are there any other forms that influence your work, whether nature, music, science or visual art?
MUSIC. Much of OO was written while I listened to The Burning Hell's "Fuck the Government, I Love You." Much of my current myth project is being written with Bikini Kill's "Feels Blind" on repeat. I also like reading books about music to inspire me. I just finished Carrie Brownstein's Hunger Makes Me a Modern Girl and am re-reading Sara Marcus's Girls to the Front. So, I guess that's still books, but I think it counts. 

15 - What other writers or writings are important for your work, or simply your life outside of your work?
Wordsmiths & Thinkers who are in my mind or heart right now: NourbeSe Philip, Canisia Lubrin, Maria Sabina, Stephen Collis, Billy-Ray Belcourt, Robert Duncan, Elena Ferrante, Audre Lorde, bill bissett, Maggie Nelson, Kai Cheng Thom, J. R.Carpenter, and John Cage (forever and ever, amen). 

16 - What would you like to do that you haven't yet done?
LSD. 

17 - If you could pick any other occupation to attempt, what would it be? Or, alternately, what do you think you would have ended up doing had you not been a writer?
I always wanted to be a massage therapist, but I have very weak wrists and arms and also a very weak entire body. BUT, if I had started training to be strong and to know and care for bodies like that, I imagine that would be a gratifying occupation. I also think I'm particularly well-suited to be a bored suburban housewife that runs some kind of perverse underground sex club; I really love the idea of running a clandestine sexual underbelly for a conservative-looking community. I suspect the ship has sailed for that opportunity as well, but a girl can dream. 

18 - What made you write, as opposed to doing something else?
At the end of the day, I just love poems, and I got really lucky that I had enough time/money/privilege/support/community to see poetry as a thing I could do.

19 - What was the last great book you read? What was the last great film?
I just read through Desmond Cole's The Skin We're In: A Year of BLACK Resistance and Power in two days. It was beautiful and empowering and I loved it. The last great film I saw is the last great film we all saw: Parasite

20 - What are you currently working on?
I'm working on this series of poems about women (mortal and divine) in Greek mythology who are stuck in some form or another. They're typewritten and digitally altered and read through pornography. You can find snippets of it in ToCallTrain, and a pamphlet from Happy Monks with more on the way as soon as I... you know... finish them. I'll keep you posted. ;)