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Showing posts with label marriage. Show all posts
Showing posts with label marriage. Show all posts

Thursday, February 08, 2024

Sunspots 964

Things I have spotted that may be of interest to others:

A splendid essay on eight principles of sound Christian thinking.


A Conversation writer discusses treason and the 14th amendment to the US Constitution.

Another Conversation writer tells us that there are limits to the length of legal briefs, and some lawyers do their best to get around such limits.

Gizmodo has an article which tells you how to find out what model your phone is.

Heart, Mind, Soul and Strength considers demons, whether real beings or diseases.

Gizmodo reports that a woman has received a brain implant device that controls her OCD and bipolar disease.

Gizmodo also reports on a Russian man who found his wife using artificial intelligence.

LiveScience reports that blue whales, the largest animals on earth, have been mating, occasionally, with another species of whale.

NPR reports that gardeners can now grow purple tomatoes. The purple color comes from snapdragon flowers.

Thanks for reading!

Thursday, October 26, 2023

Sunspots 956

Things I have recently spotted that may be of interest to others*


Computing: Gizmodo reports that workers who work accompanied by robots tend to slack off more than workers who work with humans.

Ethics: A Conversation writer has studied lies and lying: how often, in what circumstances.

Health: A Conversation writer tells us that chicken soup really does us some good.

Gizmodo reports on a woman who had a spider living in her ear. Really.

Politics: (or something) NPR reports on an analysis that shows that children of married parents are better off than children of single mothers.

(or something) A Conversation writer discusses traffic roundabouts.

Science: Nature reports on the question of whether there is life on earth. Really.

Sex: A Conversation writer points out that neither humans nor animals are entirely male or entirely female, and discusses other aspects of sex and reproduction.

(and the Arts) NPR reports on a study indicating that young people think there is too much sex in movies and TV.

*I try not to include items that require a password or fee to view

Thanks for reading.

Wednesday, June 07, 2023

Sunspots 937

 Things I have recently spotted that may be of interest to others*:


The Arts: Gizmodo argues that artificial intelligence is, so far, not creative. The article links to several types of artificial intelligence productions.

(or something) Gizmodo reports that production of the Barbie movie caused a shortage of some pink paint.

Education: (and Health) NPR says that medical students often don't attend classes.

Finances: A Conversation writer discusses work decisions among very wealthy US couples. Unlike in the general public, women in such families are not likely to work outside the home.

Humor: (or something) The Lego company has produced a Captain America Shield, with over 3000 pieces.

Politics: (or something) CNN reports that Japan and South Korea make better warships than the US.

Science: Gizmodo reports that ancestors of humans may have buried their dead and used symbols.

*I try not to include items that require a password or fee to view.

Thanks for reading.

Thursday, March 30, 2023

Women of the Bible: Naomi

Ruth 2:1 Naomi had a relative of her husband’s, a mighty man of wealth, of the family of Elimelech, and his name was Boaz. 2 Ruth the Moabitess said to Naomi, “Let me now go to the field, and glean among the ears of grain after him in whose sight I find favor.”

She said to her, “Go, my daughter.” 3 She went, and came and gleaned in the field after the reapers; and she happened to come to the portion of the field belonging to Boaz, who was of the family of Elimelech.

4 Behold, Boaz came from Bethlehem, and said to the reapers, “May Yahweh be with you.”

They answered him, “May Yahweh bless you.”

5 Then Boaz said to his servant who was set over the reapers, “Whose young lady is this?”

6 The servant who was set over the reapers answered, “It is the Moabite lady who came back with Naomi out of the country of Moab. 7 She said, ‘Please let me glean and gather after the reapers among the sheaves.’ So she came, and has continued even from the morning until now, except that she rested a little in the house.”

8 Then Boaz said to Ruth, “Listen, my daughter. Don’t go to glean in another field, and don’t go from here, but stay here close to my maidens. 9 Let your eyes be on the field that they reap, and go after them. Haven’t I commanded the young men not to touch you? When you are thirsty, go to the vessels, and drink from that which the young men have drawn.”

10 Then she fell on her face and bowed herself to the ground, and said to him, “Why have I found favor in your sight, that you should take knowledge of me, since I am a foreigner?”

11 Boaz answered her, “I have been told all about what you have done for your mother-in-law since the death of your husband, and how you have left your father, your mother, and the land of your birth, and have come to a people that you didn’t know before. 12 May Yahweh repay your work, and a full reward be given to you from Yahweh, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge.”

13 Then she said, “Let me find favor in your sight, my lord, because you have comforted me, and because you have spoken kindly to your servant, though I am not as one of your servants.”

14 At meal time Boaz said to her, “Come here, and eat some bread, and dip your morsel in the vinegar.”

She sat beside the reapers, and they passed her parched grain. She ate, was satisfied, and left some of it. 15 When she had risen up to glean, Boaz commanded his young men, saying, “Let her glean even among the sheaves, and don’t reproach her. 16 Also pull out some for her from the bundles, and leave it. Let her glean, and don’t rebuke her.”

17 So she gleaned in the field until evening; and she beat out that which she had gleaned, and it was about an ephah[a] of barley. 18 She took it up, and went into the city. Then her mother-in-law saw what she had gleaned; and she brought out and gave to her that which she had left after she had enough.

19 Her mother-in-law said to her, “Where have you gleaned today? Where have you worked? Blessed be he who noticed you.”

She told her mother-in-law with whom she had worked, “The man’s name with whom I worked today is Boaz.” 20 Naomi said to her daughter-in-law, “May he be blessed by Yahweh, who has not abandoned his kindness to the living and to the dead.” Naomi said to her, “The man is a close relative to us, one of our near kinsmen.”

22 Naomi said to Ruth her daughter-in-law, “It is good, my daughter, that you go out with his maidens, and that they not meet you in any other field.” 23 So she stayed close to the maidens of Boaz, to glean to the end of barley harvest and of wheat harvest; and she lived with her mother-in-law.

3:1 Naomi her mother-in-law said to her, “My daughter, shall I not seek rest for you, that it may be well with you? 2 Now isn’t Boaz our kinsman, with whose maidens you were? Behold, he will be winnowing barley tonight on the threshing floor. 3 Therefore wash yourself, anoint yourself, get dressed, and go down to the threshing floor; but don’t make yourself known to the man until he has finished eating and drinking. 4 It shall be, when he lies down, that you shall note the place where he is lying. Then you shall go in, uncover his feet, and lay down. Then he will tell you what to do.”

5 She said to her, “All that you say, I will do.” 6 She went down to the threshing floor, and did everything that her mother-in-law told her. 7 When Boaz had eaten and drunk, and his heart was merry, he went to lie down at the end of the heap of grain. She came softly, uncovered his feet, and laid down. 8 At midnight, the man was startled and turned himself; and behold, a woman lay at his feet. 9 He said, “Who are you?”

16 When she came to her mother-in-law, she said, “How did it go, my daughter?”

She told her all that the man had done for her. 17 She said, “He gave me these six measures of barley; for he said, ‘Don’t go empty to your mother-in-law.’”

18 Then she said, “Wait, my daughter, until you know what will happen; for the man will not rest until he has settled this today.”

4:9 Boaz said to the elders and to all the people, “You are witnesses today, that I have bought all that was Elimelech’s, and all that was Chilion’s and Mahlon’s, from the hand of Naomi. 10 Moreover, Ruth the Moabitess, the wife of Mahlon, I have purchased to be my wife, to raise up the name of the dead on his inheritance, that the name of the dead may not be cut off from among his brothers and from the gate of his place. You are witnesses today.”

11 All the people who were in the gate, and the elders, said, “We are witnesses. May Yahweh make the woman who has come into your house like Rachel and like Leah, which both built the house of Israel; and treat you worthily in Ephrathah, and be famous in Bethlehem. 12 Let your house be like the house of Perez, whom Tamar bore to Judah, of the offspring[a] which Yahweh will give you by this young woman.”

13 So Boaz took Ruth and she became his wife; and he went in to her, and Yahweh enabled her to conceive, and she bore a son. 14 The women said to Naomi, “Blessed be Yahweh, who has not left you today without a near kinsman. Let his name be famous in Israel. 15 He shall be to you a restorer of life and sustain you in your old age; for your daughter-in-law, who loves you, who is better to you than seven sons, has given birth to him.” 16 Naomi took the child, laid him in her bosom, and became nurse to him. 17 The women, her neighbors, gave him a name, saying, “A son is born to Naomi”. They named him Obed. He is the father of Jesse, the father of David. 

Wednesday, January 18, 2023

Sunspots 919

Things I have recently spotted that may be of interest to others*:



Environment: NPR reports that highway traffic was significantly less during the first part of the pandemic, but is increasing now.

NPR also reports that Exxon researchers knew, decades ago, that climate change was going to occur, but the company claimed that this was not so.

NPR reports on using a 3-D printer to make a 2-story house.

Gizmodo reports that the natural gas industry is paying TV hosts to influence people to use propane, and that some of that money comes from government funds for education.

Health: The Conversation on the health benefits of marriage.

*I try not to include items that require a password or fee to view.

Thanks for reading.

Wednesday, March 24, 2021

Sunspots 825

Things I have recently spotted that may be of interest to someone else:




Christianity: Christianity Today has an article exploring the ins and outs of cohabitation before, or instead of, marriage.

A Relevant article reminds us that the default position of Christians shouldn't be outrage.

Computing: (and food) Gizmodo reports that Mars candies is testing a device that rolls along the aisles of grocery stores, trying to get you to buy candy. (There's Mars candy as part of the device.)

Education: Grammarphobia discusses o'clock, and other words with apostrophes.

Ethics: NPR reports that scientists have facilitated cell growth from single cells to a structure that resembles a very early embryo. The article brings out some of the ethical questions about the procedure.

The Scientist gives more lab details on this research.

Health: (or something) Gizmodo asks about hair loss, and how to slow it down.

Politics: FiveThirtyEight analyzes positions of US House members and candidates, and finds that, for both parties, moderate candidates did very well. But there aren't many of them.

Science: The Scientist reports on a study of the giraffe genome. Giraffes have, for one thing, genes that raise their blood pressure, allowing their brains to receive blood.

NPR reports that bonobos seem to be innately more likely to share, and much less likely to kill each other, than chimpanzees.

Gizmodo shows us face mask details, magnified significantly.

Sports: NPR, and other outlets, on disparities between facilities for the men's and women's NCAA basketball tournament. Guess who has the better facilities?

The graphic used in these posts is from NASA, hence, it is free to use like this.

Thanks for looking!

 

Thursday, November 12, 2020

Sunspots 806

Things I have recently spotted that may be of interest to someone else:




Christianity: Relevant has a tongue-in-cheek piece on Starbuck's cups, which, again, don't include the word, "Christmas," on them.

A Christianity Today article argues that Phoebe (Romans 16:1) had an important role in the church.

Environment: The US has officially withdrawn (finally) from the Paris Climate Accord. Gizmodo also reports that, if Biden wins, we could re-join the Accord in about a month.

Gizmodo reports that the voters of Colorado have voted to have wolves introduced into the state. (They used to live there).

Health: (or something) Relevant reports that the US divorce rate keeps dropping. However, marriage, especially among those not so well off, is also less likely.

The Panda's Thumb is not totally optimistic about Pfizer's vaccine, for more than one reason. I hope that the optimism is correct.

Politics: Neil Cavuto, Fox News anchor, had his program cut away from a White House press conference, because, he said, it was presenting unsubstantiated assertions about ballots, according to Relevant and other sources.

Nate Silver, head of FiveThirtyEight, discusses what recent polls got right.

Science: Relevant reports on an extra-solar planet that has extreme conditions.

Gizmodo reports on recent observations of a little-known kind of squid.

Sports: FiveThirtyEight reports that the number of punts returned, rather than let fall, or fairly caught, is declining.

The graphic used in these posts is from NASA, hence, it is free to use like this.

Thanks for looking!

Wednesday, June 26, 2019

Sunspots 734


Things I have recently spotted that may be of interest to someone else:


Christianity: A Relevant writer on what to do when you don't like reading the Bible.

A Relevant writer tells us some things that our culture tells us about love and marriage that are wrong.

A Relevant writer says that everything doesn't happen for a reason.

Relevant also tells us what the Bible says about treating refugees hospitably. See more such scripture here (there's some duplication).

Relevant (again!) reports that religious donations declined by 2 billion dollars last year.

Christianity Today reports that the latest tariffs on goods from China may make the prices of Bibles, in the US, go up significantly.

Christianity Today has an article on how to lessen the polarization that is all too common in our society today.

Education: (or something) Listverse tells us about the history of some special colors, such as why school buses are yellow.

Finance: Catherine Rampell points out that retail sales is the biggest business in the country, and it's hurting badly, partly because of tariffs on Chinese products. Both the owners and the workers are hurting, but no one seems to be making a crusade out of that. (She says that there are 20 times more department store employees than the number of coal workers.)

NPR on why hardly any shoes are now made in the USA, and why it would be hard to bring such  manufacturing back.

Health: A writer attempting to cover a national anti-vaccination conference describes that movement, and how she (and other reporters) was or have been kicked out.

Politics: Christianity Today points out that the international refugee crisis has hit a record high, while the US acceptance of refugees has hit a record low.

The Associated Press compares the President's statements, made at his campaign kick-off rally, with the facts.

Michael Gerson discusses the President's compulsion to disregard the facts, and to make himself look good. Sample: a) the Mueller Report was put together by Democratic enemies of the President and b) the Mueller report completely exonerates the President.


Science: Gizmodo tells us why it's been raining so much. (There are several causes.)

Gizmodo also reports on hybridization between beluga whales and narwhals, in the wild.

BioLogos presents 10 common misconceptions about evolution.

NPR reports on an experiment involving supposed lost wallets (the experimenters knew what was in the wallet, and tracked attempts at returning them.) The findings were surprising.

An article in Smithsonian about large, brightly colored squirrels.

Sports: NPR reports that a bacterial species, in the gut, that occurs more often in long-distance runners, helps mice to run better, when placed in the mouse's gut.

The graphic used in these posts is from NASA, hence, I believe, it is public domain. 

Thanks for looking!

Thursday, April 25, 2019

Homosexuality: Questions and Answers

On June 13, 2009, I posted a rather long discussion of homosexuality. I tried to be kind to all readers and commenters. There were quite a few of both. Since that time, that post has slipped into obscurity. As I understand it, search engines look for newer posts first, usually. So I'm posting it again, hoping that others, who haven't known it was there, will read it, and comment.

March 4, 2023: Someone pointed out that, although scriptural references to homosexuality seem to be against such behavior, none of these cases were about a committed monogamous relationship between two men, or between two women. 

Back to original post, and (comments) which has not been changed: There are is another reason for re-posting. One of the currently leading Democratic Presidential candidates is a practicing homosexual. And the apparent leading Republican candidate is a serial adulterer. If you want to know more about these things, do a web search for "Trump adultery," or for "Butigeig." (Butigeig spoke about his faith in an interview reported by Relevant. Here's a Trump adultery timeline in Newsweek.)

In this post, I'm not going to discuss the question of whether being an active homosexual, or a serial adulterer, makes one unacceptable, in God's sight, of being President of the US. Nor do I wish to discuss the question of whether believing voters could conscientiously support either of these types of person. Perhaps in further posts.

The last reason for re-posting is that I posted, on January 11, 2011, a comment about the sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic church. I should not have written as if Catholic clergy are/were the only abusers. They aren't. I have since read of a sexual abuse scandal involving Southern Baptist youth ministers in Texas. and of another abuse case in a Jewish training institution. Unfortunately, there are probably a lot more cases of ministers betraying their trust, their profession, and their God by such behavior.

Here's the original post:

Saturday, June 13, 2009


Homosexuality: Questions and Answers

Christians often make one of two mistakes about homosexuality. Some say that there is nothing wrong with homosexual activity, and some say that it is the worst (or the only) sin. Neither of these is consistent with the Bible. The most important question related to homosexuality is the authority of the Bible.There are only a few direct scriptural references to homosexuality: Genesis 19:1-5, 12; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:24-27; I Corinthians 6:9-20; I Timothy 1:10; Jude 1:7. (Deuteronomy 23:17-18 probably refers to homosexual prostitution.) Some, who mostly fall into the first error above, say that:
Genesis 19 is about gang rape, not homosexuality Ezekiel 16:48-50, Isaiah 1:10-17, Jeremiah 23:14 and Matthew 10:11-15 indicate that homosexuality was not the primary sin of the inhabitants of Sodom -it was lack of justice, lack of hospitality, and rejection of God - but see Jude 1:7, which says something about sexual sin;
that the passages in Leviticus and Romans aren't relevant for today's practicing homosexuals, because they condemn unnatural acts by heterosexuals;
while today's homosexuals are doing what is natural for them;
that I Corinthians and I Timothy are against pederasty, not the homosexuality of today.

These arguments may have some validity, but there is a strong biblical argument against homosexual activity. It is not from the texts cited above (although they are part of the evidence) but from the scriptural portrayal of heterosexual fidelity as God's ideal for humans, from the earliest parts of Genesis to the portrayal of the church as the bride of Christ in Revelation. (See Genesis 2:18-24, Exodus 20:14, Proverbs 5, The Song of Solomon, Ezekiel 16, Hosea 1-3, Matthew 19:4-6, John 2:1-11, Revelation 19:6-8, and elsewhere.)

1. Is homosexuality wrong? Yes and no. Based on scripture, homosexual activity is wrong. Homosexual tendencies are not wrong, any more than heterosexual ones, unless those tendencies are due to wrong choices. If I am attracted to someone other than my wife, because I have heterosexual tendencies, and act on it, that's wrong. Having the tendencies isn't wrong. (Acting on it doesn't mean just adultery or fornication--deliberately exposing myself to pornography, or lusting after movie stars, etc., are ways of acting on heterosexual tendency, and acting sinfully.) It isn't wrong to have heterosexual tendencies, unless those tendencies are due to wrong choices, so why should it be wrong to have homosexual tendencies?

2. Is homosexual tendency built in? In some cases. Recent evidence indicates that pre-natal hormonal exposure is important. There is probably some genetic influence. But some people choose homosexuality over heterosexuality. (James Dobson believes that homosexuality is due to how a child was raised, which is probably part of the story. If it were all of the story, the cause would be neither a choice by the person or some built-in factor.)

3. Isn't having homosexual tendencies, but not being able to act on them without sinning, unfair? God is not ever unfair. He may demand more of some than others, in certain aspects of their lives. All of us are born with tendencies that we must control in order to live Christian lives. It isn't just homosexuals that are called to life-long celibacy -- some heterosexuals are. All heterosexuals are, until they are married.

4. Can homosexuals form long-lasting same-sex relationships? Apparently. However, this often doesn't happen. (It often doesn't happen with heterosexual marriage relationships, either, but that's another sad story.) Are such relationships identical to stable Christian heterosexual marriages, in God's sight? No. They aren't God's plan. You could have a long-lasting sexual relationship with a prostitute, or even a dog, but the fact that it's long-lasting doesn't make it right. 

5. Can homosexuals become happy heterosexuals? At least some of the time. (See 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.) Probably not all of the time.

6. What should be the Christian attitude toward homosexuals? Practicing homosexuals, like practicing gossips, gluttons or thieves, are sinners. We should love them, but not love their sin. Overt sinners should not be leaders in churches, and certainly not pastors.

7. Is homosexuality the worst threat to marriage in North America?
No. If there were no homosexuals at all, marriage would still be under continuing and violent attack from its real worst enemy, namely that a woman and a man don't make Jesus Christ Lord of their relationship.


8. Is homosexual activity the worst sin? No. See what Jesus said in comparing Sodom to the people of his day, in Matthew 11:20-24, and Luke 10:1-12. Romans 1 indicates that homosexual behavior is a symptom of a worse sin, idolatry or unbelief.

Homosexual activity is not even the worst sexual sin -- it's not part of the 10 Commandments. (Adultery, of course, is prohibited in the 10 Commandments.) There's a list of curses for sinful activity in Deuteronomy 27:15-26. Four such were curses for sexual misconduct, and they didn't include homosexual activity. (That does not, of course, make homosexual activity acceptable for Christians.)

There are some other topics that I wish to mention briefly.

Intersexuality, or ambiguous anatomical sexual anatomy
(See Wikipedia article.) There is controversy over classification issues, but it seems that from 0.05% to as many as 1.7% of babies born have genital anatomy that is not normal. What does that have to do with homosexuality? This -- not everyone is born "normal." People do not choose to be born with ambiguous external genitals, nor do they become this way because of the way that their parents raised them, which relates, at least somewhat, to the questions of how people become homosexual, and God's fairness to them. So far as I know, Christian thinkers have not considered this phenomenon at all, let alone in depth.

Civil Unions
Should Christians oppose civil unions? A civil union would give homosexual couples some legal rights, such as joint ownership of property, and hospital visitation rights, but would not have the same type of recognition as a marriage. This is a difficult question, and I haven't resolved it in my own mind. If I am offered the chance to vote on the issue, I will try to make up my mind, God helping me. On the one hand, it seems unfair to deny a person, who has been a caregiver, hospital visitation rights for the person he or she has cared for, regardless of their sexual preferences. On the other hand, this might be a step toward full recognition of marriage between homosexuals, on the same basis as between heterosexuals, and, as indicated above, I do not believe that a homosexual couple can have God-approved marriage.

A church-approved marriage does not need to be the same as a state-approved marriage, although, often, it is. Couples, even totally unchurched couples, often seem to believe that they have a right to a church wedding, and churches often comply, sometimes even without any pre-marital counseling. Probably many churches, including my own, have, occasionally, had marriage ceremonies between a man and a woman performed that united couples that God really didn't want together.

Should Homosexuals be allowed to join churches?
I would draw upon the example of the early church, except that I am not clear as to whether the early church had membership in the same way that many churches do today. Let me stipulate that a church member is someone that the congregation, or its leaders, believes is a converted Christian, who is in agreement with basic Bible doctrine, and Christian practice, as understood by that church.

I don't see any reason to deny membership to a person with homosexual tendencies, as indicated above. Based on 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, persons engaged in homosexual activity should not be taken into membership, any more than greedy people, or swindlers, should be. They are mentioned in the same list as homosexuals. The good news is that the same passage states that some of the current members of the Corinthian church used to do some of these things, but had been redeemed from such activities, presumably including homosexuality.

Thanks for reading.

*  *  *  *  *

Added Jan 26, 2013: Here's a later post, on adultery and fornication

Added July 29, 2014: Here's a later post, on the idea that Jesus referred to homosexuality without condemning it. 

Added January 8, 2015: Here's my post on what's wrong with the political left/right in the US

Added January 18, 2015: One of the possible dangers, for the near future, for Christians, is that merely saying that the Bible says that homosexual activity is sinful may be called illegal hate speech, no matter what the motivation or tone of the statement. In other words, even answering a question: "Does the Bible say that homosexual activity is sinful?" with a "Yes, I believe that it does" may lead to legal action.

Added May 27, 2016: Benjamin L. Corey writes that some Christians are changing their attitude toward homosexuals, and indicates why this is so. (He thinks it's a good thing, by the way.)

On June 8, 2016, I added scriptural references to the first paragraph. I recommend this post on scripture and homosexuality by Ken Schenck.

On June 9, 2017, I found this post from Sojourners, which gives 10 Bible passages which, according to the article, indicate that the church should not condemn persons who are practicing homosexual behavior. 

This is a post, by me, arguing that marriage was not a sacrament in New Testament times.


33 comments:

Anonymous said...
You've given me additional insight in how to best deal with my niece. I do love her and I've told her that, but I don't condone her lifestyle. When I pray for her I ask for God to free her from the bondage she doesn't know she's in.
Lizabeth
groovyoldlady said...
Excellent post. Well reasoned and thoroughly Biblical.

However, I do take exception to your statement, "God is not ever unfair." He is BLESSEDLY unfair, or else He would allow us all to suffer the due penalty of our own sin. Instead, He most unfairly paid the penalty for our sin and just as unfairly imputed to us the righteousness of Christ.

:-D
Martin LaBar said...
You are right, groovyoldlady. I should have said that God does not punish us unfairly, I guess.
Anonymous said...
I like this post. I noticed you put the two extreme views of homosexuality in the first paragraph. It's funny that neither of those takes scripture seriously. Both would end up being uber liberal theology. Kudos.
ClassyChassy said...
Good post. I have come across some bloggers who post in favor of homosexuality - that it is fine with God, blah blah blah --I have trouble with that, and you have written all of the reasons right here. Since I do not know these people, I simply say nothing, and leave no comment if I finish reading what they have to say. Congrats on your boldness here today.
Keetha Broyles said...
Appears that TWO of my blog regulars made their way over here AND commented (several others have told me they came) and ONE of my blog regulars became a follower!!

Now you have more readers!!!
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks, anonymous.

Yes, that was my point, superrustyfly.

ClassyChassy, I wasn't bold. I doubt seriously if anyone who believes homosexual activity is compatible with God's will will even read this blog. I hope I did put forward the main scriptural reason why it is sinful, as well as some stern admonishment for those who believe that, as some say, "God hates fags," except that they won't read this, either. Oh, well.

Thanks, Keetha!
Daniel Smith said...
Great post. You've compiled the most comprehensive collection of information on this topic that I have ever seen - and you even included information on intersexuality. I didn't think there was any information on this topic and you have confirmed that.

I most definitely want to hear more on this topic as you have time to research and think through this complicated issue. I have a close friend that is openly gay who I grew up with. He is still a friend and a good one at that, but I question how to deal with and accept his sexual preference choices. Your guidelines are informative and I appreciate them.

I'd also like to add that I completely disagree with the notion that there is a genetic basis for homosexuality. Much research has been done on this for years and nothing has come of it. The only bit of supporting evidence I've ever heard is the information you presented regarding prenatal hormones - and I doubt that will make much of an impact compared to upbringing and personal choices.

Oh, and you might explicitly include the David and Jonathan verses where David loves Jonathan that some include as a depiction of homosexuality. It's the passage where Jonathan shoots arrows and what says is code for David to flee or stay.
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks, Daniel Smith.

I didn't include the passages about David and Jonathan, or the one where John is described as the disciple Jesus loved, or the one on the rich young ruler. In the first place, I was looking only for verses that are against homosexual activity, not those that might support it. In the second place, I don't think any of these incidents were related to sexual activity at all -- as C. S. Lewis pointed out, there's more than one Greek word for "love," and it's too bad that that isn't true of English, also. Only one of those words has to do with sexual attraction, as I understand it, where, in English, we seem to have moved to where "love" means "sex," often without much love, in our minds.

David, of course, had several wives, and children, and his most glaring sin was related to his lusting after Bathsheba's body. He certainly wasn't an exclusive homosexual, and I don't believe that he was a homosexual at all.

Thanks again.
Anonymous said...
Hello,

I've read a few of your blogs and believe that you are well-studied, fair, and open-minded in your posts as well as comment responses.

I am a homosexual male. I feel like I was born like this, but I suppose I'll never know for sure... I am also a practicing Catholic and come from a very conservative background. It should then be no surprise that when I discovered this about me, I did everything in my power to "change" myself. I believed there was something wrong with me. Everything I did to fight it led to more pain, and as a result, anger - especially with God. (This anger is no more... I understand that God gives everyone different challenges and trials through which to work.)

My entire story would be a book so I'll summarize here. I became aware of my homosexuality at 16, fought it for approximately 8 years, and began dating and learning about the "gay lifestyle" at 24. I'm 31 now.

As I stated earlier, I believe you to be fair. I also believe you well-intentioned. So I wanted to ask you to pray and reflect on this question - After much reflection on my part, I believe with all my heart that two men or two women together in a loving relationship is not morally wrong. I believe God loves those couples and does not disaprove. If I am wrong, why do I still feel with all my heart that I am not? Wouldn't God find a way to convince me I am wrong?

I believe I can speak fairly objectively in my belief. Though I am gay, currently, I am not dating. After much reflection, I feel relationships are not good for me. I seem to be happiest being single. This fact, however, does not impact my belief about homosexual relationships...

I am a teacher so I will refrain from posting my full name. I trust you understand. Also, if there is anything you would like to know about me or just wish to engage in a thoughtful discussion on the topic, I am willing. It would just have to be outside of a public blog. Thank you for your time.

David
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks for your comment, David.

I will try to pray for you and your situation. Let me try to respond.

Unfortunately, our hearts can mislead us. as Genesis 6:5, Jeremiah 11:8, and many other Bible verses indicate. As Jeremiah 17:9 put it: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (KJV) As I indicated in my post, I believe that the Bible has enough on this, especially the emphasis throughout it on heterosexual marriage as the norm, and blessed by God, to convince us of God's ideas on the subject, regardless of our own hearts.
As I understand the Bible, you should not be in a sexual relationship with someone, regardless of your homosexual tendencies.

I sympathize with you, and understand that I may be wrong in anything I have said about this issue. Also, I know that I am not looking at this in the same way you do, that is, from the standpoint of a person who is sexually attracted to a person of their own sex.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I have any special expertise in this area, and don't think that I could be of more help in this.

God help you. He loves you.

Thanks for your comment.
Andrew Ryan said...
Martin, 1) what is your opinion of the Archbishop of Canterbury's views on homosexuality? He said words to the affect that he doesn't see gays in loving, long-term relationships as being any more sinful than straight couples. His position can't be put down to ignorance of scripture - he's renowned as a biblical scholar.

2) Gay men are generally characterised as being more promiscuous then heterosexual men. I don't know much about gay culture, but I gather that the characterisation is probably true.

However, isn't this more down to the fact that men in general are more promiscuous than women? Straight men's promiscuity is limited by the women they can hook up with. Gay men don't have this limitation.

The evidence for this is that when straight men get rich or famous, they find it a lot easier to get women, and they tend to become as promiscuous as gay men.

The other factor is that gay men cannot marry. We're always being told that marriage stabilises people, encourages them to stick out relationships. I don't know if this is true, but if it is, would it not follow that denying gays the ability to marry would effectively be encouraging promiscuity?

This is similar to the fallacy that pigs are dirty creatures, therefore we keep them in muddy styes, which makes them dirty, reinforcing our original misconception. In other words, people say gays are too promiscuous to marry (an institution we believe discourages promiscuity), and then the same people point to all the promiscuous unmarried gay people as evidence.

Andrew - ar@wlv.ac.uk
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks, Andrew.

My reaction to the Archbishop is that it is possible to be a Biblical scholar and still deny what the Bible says. Whether that's what the Archbishop is doing, I don't know. It is possible, of course, that I am mis-reading the Bible. But I read it as indicating that homosexual sexual activity, even within a long-term relationship, is not God's best plan for humans, and is sinful.

In the US, and probably elsewhere, churches have sanctioned heterosexual marriages when not all such should be sanctioned, for any number of reasons, including immaturity of the partners, lack of real commitment to each other, and the partners not having any other relationship with the church. Ideally, I think the church should sanction a lot fewer marriages than the state allows, and that would be true if there were no such thing as homosexuality. However, that's not the way we do it, and I think the church sanctions a lot of heterosexual marriages that God doesn't.

I'm not sure that I oppose state-sanctioned marriage between homosexual partners, for some of the reasons you give, and for fairness -- why should a homosexual caregiver who would have been a spouse if homosexual marriage were allowed, be denied hospital visiting rights, for example?

But a God-sanctioned marriage has to be between a man and a woman, who are committed to each other, and to God, as I understand the Bible. Therefore, I oppose church-sanctioned marriages between homosexual partners.

Thanks for your comment.
Andrew Ryan said...
Martin, thanks for taking the time to reply. I've one other question. Some of the Christians I know who have no problem with homosexuality, I've asked them how they reconcile the 'anti-gay' passages in the bible with their stance.

A reply I've heard a couple of times is that those are OT passages, and that if they took such passages literally they'd also have to also take literally all the passages that condoned slavery. (Googling 'bible condones slavery' brings up many examples).

Is it not special pleading to reject those 'pro-slavery' passages, but not do the same for the 'anti-gay' parts?
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks, Andrew Ryan.

It is, indeed, dangerous to specially plead for something. Perhaps I, and other Christians, have done so in the matter of homosexuality.

It is also dangerous to say that we know better than the Bible.

As I read the New Testament, it isn't pro-slavery, but it accepts slavery, and some other things, such as the inferior status of women in Jewish society, as part of the culture. Christ didn't come so much to re-make culture (He didn't defeat the Romans!) as to re-make people, one at a time. Some Roman soldiers became His followers. A long time later, Christians led the fight to defeat slavery, relying, I guess, on their sense that it was wrong. They had some Biblical support. There's the Golden Rule -- they didn't want to be slaves, so why should anyone else have to be? There are also as admonitions, in both Testaments, to be just to the poor, and slaves were (and are) as poor as you can get.

My response to your question about the Old Testament is two-fold.

First, the Bible is much more a pro-heterosexuality book than it is an anti-homosexuality book, and this includes the New Testament, through Revelation.

Second, saying that the New Testament doesn't touch on homosexuality is just plain wrong. I referenced either five or six (depending on how you count) passages that deal with it in my post.

Thanks again.
Andrew Ryan said...
Martin, thanks again for taking the time to respond to my post. It is much appreciated. Thanks also for your Intelligent Design post.
Andrew, UK.
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks, Andrew Ryan.
Anonymous said...
I am the "David" that wrote the Jan 15th post. Sorry I've not thanked you for your response earlier, but it's been a busy month to say the least. Thank you again for your prayers and words. I think God will find a way to answer the questions I have. Peace be with you.

David
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks for your response, anonymous. God help us all.
Anon said...
"It doesn't make sense to put a church member with known homosexual tendencies in charge of children or youth groups"

Evil.
I don't have the energy at the moment to fully argue this article, and although I do think you are ignorant of what exactly you're saying, and so I forgive you; it is evil and it is bigotry.
Martin LaBar said...
Thank you for taking the time to comment, Anon, whoever you are.

If what I said was evil, I'm sorry. It is also true that heterosexuals have done some nasty things to children who were their responsibility in church children's work.
Megan said...
Thanks for this Dr. LaBar, It is obvious that your post has gotten people to think. Could you clarify homosexual tendencies? Do you mean someone who tends to be tempted in that area? I recently saw an interesting hypothetical on another blog that i will pose to you. Say a man is in a now legal marriage relationship with another man and gets saved. He might feel that to "divorce" would be sinful. The first thing that came to my mind was that since homosexual behavior is sin and homosexual marriage not recognized by God then it is not divorce but that is coming from a heterosexual female! What would be your take on this?
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks, Megan.

Homosexual tendencies mean that a person is sexually attracted to someone, or several someones, of the same sex as they are. And, yes, this is a form of temptation.

As to your hypothetical question, that's a tough one. I guess I'd agree with you that homosexual marriage is not recognized by God, so this wouldn't be the same as divorce. And I would further state that it is important to get out of a relationship or situation that is sinful right away. But I can also see that there might be legal or moral ties between a homosexual couple, for example they might own a house jointly, or they might have agreed to share expenses, or a pet, in some way. In such cases, just as with a divorce between heterosexuals, more than a mere sexual relationship is involved, and separating might involve temptations to deceive or be greedy or slanderous in the process.
Anonymous said...
Hello Dr. LaBar!

Thank you for your blog posts! They are very insightful!
I recently wrote a blog comment in response to your entry on homosexuality last year (the one on June 12, 2009). I am a "newbie" when it comes to arguments on homosexuality. If you have the time, please read it over--it would be greatly appreciated!
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks, Anonymous, whoever you are.

I read and commented on the other comment.
Anonymous said...
Thank you, Dr. LaBar, for your words! (I finally got around to reading this post!). It was truly a relief to hear someone comment on the many aspects of the homosexuality issue in a cohearrent, unbiased way!.
I replied back to your comment from the June 12, 2009 comment. I also wanted to you know that from here on out, I will post to this more recent blog post if I want to reply back.

Thanks again,
Callie (that is my online pen name)
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks, Anonymous/Callie.

By the way, Blogger (this is a Blogger blog) sends any comments to the blog author as e-mail, so it doesn't matter where you comment.
Anonymous said...
Not all homosexual people are paedophiles, and not all paedophiles are homosexual.

I find your implication that a homosexual person should not be trusted with young people to be offensive and inaccurate.

I am sure your words were well-intentioned, but remarks such as those you made about this subject undermine your credibility.
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks, anonymous.

I stand corrected. Not all people with homosexual tendencies are paedophiles.

Some are, if I understand recent tragic scandals in the Roman Catholic church.
i am Grateful... Kerry i am. said...
The loving "inspiration" of your responses to the commenters is as good as the "information" in the post, maybe better. Many have forgotten that speaking the truth in Love is what makes Truth believable. God bless you brother.
Martin LaBar said...
Thanks, Kerry i am. I hope I've had the right attitude.
vanessa said...
Hello, I was looking up more info on Athaliah and found this blog along side :) would you Please clarify #5'sanswer: 5)Can homosexuals become happy heterosexuals? At least some of the time. (See 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.)Probably not all of the time.
Do you mean with our without receiving the redemptive work of the cross in their lives.For I have heard testamony of men who are now happily married and living lives sold out for Christ. could you please clarify your answer?
Martin LaBar said...
Thank you, Vanessa.

As you have indicated, there have been cases of practicing homosexuals who have become apparently happy practicing heterosexuals. I'm sure that the redemptive power of God was involved, as well as their own choice.

However, I doubt if that would be possible for all individuals. At least some people seem to be homosexual because their hormones make them so. You have probably had the same experience that I have, while watching TV. I have heard some men speak, and said to myself, something like "That sounds like a homosexual," and, it turned out that the person was, indeed, a homosexual. There seems to be a strong biological tendency, in some people, to be homosexual. God could overcome that, but, just as He doesn't choose to make all believers with Down syndrome into college professors, or all blind believers sighted, He doesn't seem to choose to change everyone's sexual orientation.

I believe that a Christian can be a fulfilled, happy, celibate. There are seem to be many examples of such, such as, for example, many protestant female missionaries, and Catholic nuns (most of whom would not have chosen to be homosexual, if such a choice were somehow allowable under God). This can be true whether the person's biological inclination is to be homosexual or heterosexual. I am thankful that, for most of my life, I have not been so called -- I have been happily married to a good woman -- and I hope I have some appreciation for those who have been called to celibacy for a significant portion of their lives, or all of them.

As I say, I'm not convinced that all practicing homosexuals can become satisfied practicing heterosexuals. I have no statistics on this, and no Biblical proof, but I still believe it, based on what I know of biology, and of how God deals with various other types of infirmity. I am convinced that, with the help of God, both heterosexuals and homosexuals can become, or remain, celibate.