Who is this
FRANS GROENENDIJK
onafhankelijk politicus :: independent politician
For every complex problem there is a simple solution... and it is wrong
Oneliner:
If the power of the national political leaders is not driven back in favor of the European Parliament and the commission I say no to the constitution
Elaboration...
Recent reactions:
Young Fogey: I did indeed! But should have made it a bit more explicit. ...
fg: Your comments make me realize that for some readers the irony might have been a little bit to covert. I just wanted to make ...
Young Fogey: I'm not sure that those of us on this side of the North Sea necessarily agree with Messrs. Blackbourne and Eley that we had a ...
Adriaan Boiten: Tja, ik had het toch kunnen weten, want de serieuze "snelle media" (als Teletekst) hadden het niet gemeld. Ook op nu.nl stond het niet bij ...
MHJ van den Berg: I use it all the time for my research on weapons systems used in Iraq! ...
fg: I was not misrepresnting the poll but actually wanted to refer to it in the way you describe in your own post. The quotation ...
Frank Quist: Re: the Greens: I of course think opinions differ strongly within parties. But I don't think the more 'hawkish' opinion is represented widely enough within the ...

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18-05-2004

European political blogging 'to counter voter apathy'
(REVIEWS)

Moncay at Living in Europe links to the "blog" of the PES (Party of European Socialists) claiming it to be a
"move to counter voter apathy"
.
That's optimism.
The PES is not really a party: it's the union of the Social democratic parties (they even have a poll on their site asking
"Should the PES extend membership to individuals?"
.
Still these parties together have millions of members. On just a couple of the blog-items one person reacts. Beside there is some kind of open thread where some dozens of people give their opinion on all kinds of subjects. With no structure at all.
Amazing.
The subjects are interesting. On the result of the Indian elections they (the items have no authors!) comment (among other things):
"India shows strong economic progress – hopefully now also to the benefit of the poor people in the rural districts – and also something of what we understand by sustainability.

Europe must take advantage of this situation – revitalising not only trade negotations but also more actively seeking to improve working conditions and ensuring ILO minimum working standards for the Indian workforce.

In the globalisation era, we need Europe to be a frontrunner for a better agenda for all workers. This is also a signal in the context of the present trend of outsourcing. We are not against international work-sharing as a result of free trade. This has given us much growth and wealth – but the time has come to work for the creation of fairer conditions so that one day we will compete on the best working conditions and not on the worst."
Nothing wrong with that except that this is the blog of a big group of professional politicians. Can't they come up with something more substantial?
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17-05-2004

Onthoofding komt Bush goed uit?
(CURRENT AFFAIRS)

Volgens David Rietveld klopt er iets niet aan het filmpje met de onthoofding van de Amerikaanse burger Nick Berg door Arabische terroristen. Hij zegt niet mee te willen in de suggestie van complottheoretici dat de terroristen in werkelijkheid Amerikanen zijn, maar hij gaat toch eigenlijk wel mee door te schrijven dat het loopje van de man die de slagerswerkzaamheden verrichte niet de beweerde Abu Musab al-Zarqawi kan zijn omdat eerder gemeld is dat die Abu een been mist.
Ik snap dat niet.
Van de gruwelijke moord op de Amerikaanse burger Nick Berg kan net zo goed beweerd worden dat het de steun voor Bush zal versterken: "ook de Irakezen en andere bewoners van het Midden Oosten zouden toch beschermd moeten worden tegen dit tuig", als dat het de tegenstand tegen de Amerikaanse aanwezigheid in Irak zal doen toenemen: "wat hebben we daar te zoeken?".
Het verhaal van Berg is verbijsterend maar het gaat er bij mij echt niet in dat het door de Amerikanen opgezet is.
Om twee redenen denk ik dat het verhaal klopt.
Op de eerste plaats lijkt het me al onwaarschijnlijk dat zelfs de meest misdadige geesten in de VS zover zouden gaan en dan ook nog op deze manier. Dat Berg een oranje overall droeg op het filmpje (ik heb het zelf niet gezien en ga dat ook niet doen) lijkt me 100 keer beter te verklaren als extra hoon van de kant van de liefhebbers van de dood dan als een foutje van Amerikanen die zouden 'vergeten' om hem andere kleren aan te doen.
Op de tweede plaats hebben we een paar dagen later mogen meemaken dat Palestijnse gekken na het doden van Israelische soldaten rond gingen dansen met delen van de lichamen.
Van dit artikel over Palestinian kid is taught how to dip her hands in Jewish blood zou ik het liefst ook helemaal niets geloven maar toch geloof ik wel wat van hoewel ik ook geloof dat er wel verdraaiingen in zullen zitten.
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16-05-2004

Living in the Netherlands
(INTERNET)

Ik ben begonnen alvast wat berichtjes op de webstek Living in the Netherlands te zetten.
In tegenstelling tot wat ik er eerder over berichtte zijn we (de mensen van Bonoboland die het initiatief nemen voor deze websteks) nu van plan om zowel Nederlandse als Engelse items op te nemen.
Mijn plan is om eind mei echt van start te gaan met persberichtjes en al.
Living in the Netherlands wordt onderdeel van Living in Europe dat op haar beurt weer onderdeel uitmaakt van het netwerk Living on the Planet.
Misschien wel het aardigste aspect van dit netwerk is dat er inmiddels al weblogs bij aangesloten zijn uit allerlei delen van de wereld waarbij alleen de VS en Afrika nog ondervertegenwoordigd zijn.
Om te zien hoe 'Living in the Netherlands' kan worden zou je een kijkje kunnen nemen op Living in Germany.
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14-05-2004

Laten we maar op Paul van Buitenen gaan stemmen op 10 juni
(PROPOSITIONS)

Uiteraard heb ik enige twijfel. Ik ben er niet helemaal zeker van dat hij de kiesdrempel haalt, die is immers vrij hoog bij de Europese verkiezingen. Dat lijkt me echt akelig. Ik heb ook enige twijfel bij de kop ‘A-Politiek’ boven het wel zeer beknopte programma.
Tegelijkertijd spreekt wat hij daar schrijft me steeds meer aan. Het doet me ook een beetje denken aan de positie van Paul O’Neill: de ex-minister van financien van Bush die met zijn boek The price of loyalty ook een soort klokkenluider geworden is. Belangrijkste invalshoek voor die Amerikaanse Paul in zijn zeer succesvolle optreden in zowel de politiek als het bedrijfsleven (Alcoa): pragmatisme, geen partijdigheid, laat de feiten spreken.
" Voor Europa is het een uitdaging om - omringd door bureaucratie, religieus fundamentalisme en stalinistische naschokken - een democratische weg te gaan, die bestaande spanningen wegneemt en dialogen op gang brengt. Is dat links, is dat rechts? Laten we liever spreken in termen van eerlijkheid versus bedrog. Honderd procent eensgezindheid is een utopie. Altijd zullen belangen en meningen met elkaar botsen, maar laten we onze besluiten ten minste nemen op basis van complete en betrouwbare informatie. Alleen dan is zo'n besluit ook iets waard."
Ik voel me trouwens zelf ook steeds meer radicaal centrist. Eerder heb ik mijn ergernis over politieke partijen wel eens uitgedrukt door te klagen over 'ideologisering'; nu denk ik dat 'partijdigheid' een betere term is.
Daarnaast heb ik zeer veel waardering voor klokkenluiders: het fenomeen en de individuen.
Waar veel zittende politici en media het laten afweten vervullen klokkenluiders in een toenemend aantal zeer belangrijke kwesties een cruciale rol.
Dat geldt volgens Brendan O’Neill, geciteerd door Tim Dunlop, zelfs voor de kwestie van de marteling van Iraakse gevangenen:
"The failure of the media to expose the torture story earlier, even as Pentagon sources and soldiers' families leaked information about the torture, reveals much about the balance in this story. It suggests that it came about less as a result of campaigning journalism and more as a result of pushiness on the part of aggrieved elements in the military or close to the military."

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The Case of the Quitting Antiterrorism Chiefs
(CURRENT AFFAIRS)

Kevin Drum writes about the successors of Richard Clarke.
Like most of you, -I presume-, I read about Richard Clarke's Against all enemies: the man who worked on high positions concerning anti-terrorism not just for the present Bush but for father Bush and Clinton as well and described in his book how little attention Bush paid to fighting terrorism before 9-11.
For me it was new to find out that he has had several successors already:
"Clarke was replaced by General Wayne Downing, a pro-Iraq war hawk. Nonetheless, he had a similar experience, lasting a total of 10 months before abruptly resigning in frustration at how the White House bureaucracy was responding to the terrorist threat. Downing was replaced by two men, General [John] Gordon, who lasted ten months before moving on to his homeland security job, and Rand Beers, who resigned in disgust over the Iraq war after seven months in his post. His experience was searing enough that he immediately joined the Kerry campaign. Beers was replaced by Townsend, who has now been tapped to replace Gordon, who is apparently resigning under circumstances similar to Clarke and Beers. "
Somehow the case of Beers to me is most astonishing.
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13-05-2004

Cynicism and naïveté
(PRINCIPLES)

Today I noticed that the number of visitors to my site was higher then on other days. I appreciated that until I found out the reason. Around the world people look for news on or pictures of the beheading of a American civilian by Iraqi terrorists. I wrote one line about this but on my site the name of the victim can be found on several places because in the Netherlands it is a common name, hence the increase in visitors. Could make you think cynical thoughts. And what to think of my finding that a number of people arrive at my site looking for “cynical quotes” while avoiding cynicism is so important to me that I mention this in my motto?
The right time to elaborate on it: “Idealistic but not naive, realistic but not cynical”.
I will first give a (very loose) translation of a Dutch prologue of my site more then a year ago and then come up with an example from the Netherlands on the naïveté I want to avoid.

In my category ‘principles’ I link to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In my opinion the greatest challenge for politicians today is to regain the hope and optimism that can be found in the declaration. An important share of this is to overcome all kinds of cynicism.
My own efforts with this website of an independent politician can give rise to lots of cynicism I suppose. To resist that I remind myself from time to time of what cynicism really means. A Dutch dictionary explains the term like: ‘sharp expression of bitter doubts’. The bitterness refers to grudge. In my opinion cynicism is close to idealism. People who were egoistic, anti-social and / or arrogant from childhood will hardly ever turn cynical.
Therefore we have to explain why idealistic people who get disappointed so often react with some kind of cynicism instead of pragmatism or realpolitik. There is some yield in cynicism. I know of only one kind: through cynicism the ex-idealist wants to show his superior insights: he is wiser (then those in power and most other people as well). People just don’t listen to him. The wash their hands of everything, Through the apparent need to show superiority however I see there is still some idealism too.
It is the cynicism of powerlessness.

Two days ago the same TV-program Nova I mention below had an item on the relation of some ‘imams’ with (petty) crime. A Frenchmen who had been working for intelligence for many years, focusing on islam-fascism, claimed that some young Muslims are deliberately pushed into crime by them to guarantee their problems finding a normal position within European societies where they live persist. The journalist asked with some disbelief: ‘are you really saying that imams in the Netherlands do these kind of things?’ The intelligence guy smiled and explained that everyone can call himself imam in the Netherlands.
The misplaced respect for islam-fascist on the base of their claim to be part of a religion instead of a political movement blinds Dutch politics. That is naïveté.
I see no reason at all why theorists or propagandists of any political movement, -that includes religions too-, could acquire a work permit: no Cuban or Chinese communists, no African nuns, no bible-bigamists from the US nor imams from any country.

BTW: via some googling on ‘cynical quotes’ myself I came upon this interesting site of progressive Muslims too.
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Support for extending Dutch presence in Iraq grows inspite of fatal attack
(CONVICTIONS)

Amazing.
A few months ago according to a poll by TV-program Nova just 26% of the Dutch wanted the soldiers to stay in Iraq when they would be attacked.
Now that an attack has led to the death of a Dutch sergeant this number has gone up to 45%.
I appreciate that change but want to add a quote of Fareed Zakaria:
"Pollsters have become our modern soothsayers, interpreting public opinion surveys with the gravity with which their predecessors read chicken entrails. Of course polls, k\like chicken entrails, can be ambiguous or people can change their minds -which happens from time to time- at wi\hich point there is a lemminglike rush to the newly popular view."
(the future of freedom, page 24).
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12-05-2004

Iraq and school-violence: striking and frightening similarities
(CONVICTIONS)

On the same day I read that the Dutch sergeant wounded in Iraq had died, I happened to hear a first hand report of violence between pupils of two schools.
I made comparisons between war and childish behavior before but thinking a bit longer about both of the issues still I was shocked by the number of similarities.
This is what happened between the pupils. On a party attended by pupils of both schools some conflict had started between two girls. Today pupils of both schools again were together on some show at one of the schools. Teachers of the visiting school sensed problems and asked teachers of the other school to keep their pupils in the theatre for some time but they stated they were not able to keep them there. So on the way back to her own school a pupil was attacked by a group of 7 or 8 girls from the other school who actually jumped on her from a kind of ambush even though she rode between two teachers of the visiting school! A teacher of the visiting school jumped between and was kicked too.
From my own experience as teacher I know how these conflicts escalate. Most of these conflicts grow thanks to a misplaced, distorted kind of solidarity from sadly deprived children. Children with a low self-esteem desperate to belong to a group, lacking social skills, stirring up anyone who could feel humiliated to win their sympathy.
It’s preposterous to talk about the Al-Sadr and other fighters in Iraq as if they are
"regular people defending their homes and neighbourhoods[/div] the way Naomi Klein did. They are out for violence to show their adherence to their group. They compete in barbarism: they make a video of beheading an American civilian in response to the reports of mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners. You can hear these immatures screaming “they started” implying: “we are not responsible for our acts”.
But the similarities go on. The teachers on the school with the theatre apparently reasoned that they had little influence on their pupils: they can not compensate for the (lack of) upbringing at home. They are right in some way like it is absurd to suppose that foreigners in Iraq could stamp out the awkward consequences of literally centuries of glorifying martyrdom and conserving victimhood.
Should the teachers of the visiting school have used real violence to protect the pupil under their responsibility or could this have worked out as (another) bad example?
The dilemmas concerning Iraq, -actually the decision to extend the presence of Dutch troops or not-, are terrible. Now that a Dutchman is killed, -even though I have and never had family members or friends in the armed forces-, it feels much more difficult to make up my mind. I don’t think the Netherlands should withdraw as soon as possible. But writing that not just means I actually endorse the possibility of more Dutch to be killed but somehow contributes to the position of the US government as well. In my mind they don’t deserve it. We are definitely in need of a stronger and more independent European position.
In Europe I think I have to use my little influence to urge the candidates for the election of the European parliament to at least speak out on international affairs including military ones.
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11-05-2004

Chinese growth could cause higher prices for food as well
(CURRENT AFFAIRS)

While the EU-observer mentions there is cool response for EU-commissioner Pascal Lamy's proposals on cutting farm export aid over at A Fistful Of Euros Edward Hugh suggests that the debate on the issue of Common Agricultural Policy could change swiftly due to the growth of Chinese imports.
I agree with him suggesting the possibility that
"the Common Agricultural Policy, whose funds have long been directed to supporting farmers from prices which were considered to be too low, may find them increasingly committed towards protecting urban consumers from the consequences of world foodstuff prices which are considered to be too high. In the process the whole debate about farm subsidies may take a new and unexpected turn."
Although the last month (at last) outsourcing of skilled labour as such got some attention in Dutch press the economic rise of India and China still seems terra incognito for Dutch politics.
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10-05-2004

Rumsfeld should go, shouldn't he?
(CURRENT AFFAIRS)

Should I comment on the torture of Iraqi prisoners?
Michael Berube provided me with the link to the transcript of the hearing of the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee on the treatment of Iraqi Prisoners on 7 may.
Berube focused on the apalling populist Joe Lieberman (yes the one that tried in vain to get the democratic nomination):
""Mr. Secretary, the behavior by Americans at the prison in Iraq is, as we all acknowledge, immoral, intolerable and un-American. It deserves the apology that you have given today and that have been given by others in high positions in our government and our military.
"I cannot help but say, however, that those who were responsible for killing 3,000 Americans on September 11th, 2001, never apologized. Those who have killed hundreds of Americans in uniform in Iraq working to liberate Iraq and protect our security have never apologized.
"And those who murdered and burned and humiliated four Americans in Fallujah a while ago never received an apology from anybody."
I agree with Benube:
"But first, let's retire this man from public life. "
In my own reading of the transcript I was most surprised by the strange way the debate between senator John McCain and defense secretary Rumsfeld developed. McCain essentially want to know:
"Now, Mr. Secretary, I'd like to know -- I'd like you to give the committee the chain of command from the guards to you, all the way up the chain of command. I'd like to know..."
Again and again Rumsfeld turns out unwilling to answer straight. He argues with two generals and McCain has to repeat his question twelve times in different forms to at getting an answer:
"Well, the -- as the chief of staff of the Army can tell you, the guards are trained to guard people. They're not trained to interrogate, they're not -- and their instructions are to, in the case of Iraq, adhere to the Geneva Convention.

The Geneva Conventions apply to all of the individuals there in one way or another. They apply to the prisoners of war, and they are written out and they're instructed and the people in the Army train them to that and the people in the Central Command have the responsibility of seeing that, in fact, their conduct is consistent with the Geneva Conventions.

The criminals in the same detention facility are handled under a different provision of the Geneva Convention -- I believe it's the fourth and the prior one's the third. "

Amazing, to say the least.
As I implied in the first line of this post I am a little reluctant to add my comment on the situation. The reason for this reluctance I find illustrated throughout the transcript where senators praise the generals and Rumsfeld. From the other side of the ocean it looks evident that Rumsfeld should have to go considering the seriousness and scope of the events.
If I imagine a country is in a war with another country it would be strange to expect the minister of war to leave as a result of mistreatements of prisoners of war. Bush and his supporters claim that the US is at war with terrorism. That's nonsense of course: you can't fight a war against a concept. In a loose way of talking one could be fighting a war against hunger or any other concept. Any other concept but terrorism because you fight terrorism with real arms among other things. The war in Iraq has ended in Bush' own words.
At least to win back some credibility for the US Rumsfeld really should resign.
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09-05-2004

The Future of Freedom is an absolutely must read
(REVIEWS)

A few days of my little holiday in the UK I stayed in a manor near Cambridge. It was an alienating experience indeed. I had tried to buy The future of Freedom by Fareed Zakaria in Canterbury and in two bookshops in Cambridge but in vain. The first hour we arrived at the manor now functioning as a guesthouse, I found us talking to two English couples completely fitting a lot of stereotypes on the English. Among topics of art, aristocracy and the like, they talked on how the famous chain of bookshops "Heffers", -that I did not yet visit in search of the book-, were declining as a result of the competition by the bookshops I did visit.
To fully understand my alienation you should know that I am absolutely labour in descent. At mothers side my grandfather was a skilled cigar-maker, at fathers side an illiterate coachman for a wealthy family that actually pressed him to name his son (my father) Toon instead of the name my grandparents wanted to give him (Joop, in the end to be his real first name, but they hid it for the employer).
At first sight I thought of these conversation partners as “aristocratic”, -which to me is a very negative adjective-, but still I found some sympathy for them: the older man carrying our suitcase and clearly showing some self-mockery. Ironically it was only after I bought the book at Heffers the next day and reading the first chapters of it that I learned what my feelings towards these people meant: Zakaria describes the very special case of England in the struggles against emperors and kings around the world. England never had many aristocracy and Z quotes Blackbourne and Eley that the English had a “working aristocracy” and writes
"The English landed elite took a leading role in modernizing agriculture. Through the enclosure system, a brutal process of asserting their rights over the pastures and commons of their estates, they forced the peasants and farmers who had lived off these lands into more specialized and efficient labors”
I am very pleased with a lot of observations by Zakaria. He writes so many things I wish I had written myself…
I will definitely write more on this book. I am most curious about his “way out”. I wonder if this concurs with my propositions on indirect elections.
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30-04-2004

No blogging next week
(MISCELLANEOUS)

I'm in England for a couple of days..
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Stereotypes shattered
(CURRENT AFFAIRS)

"Earlier this month, four Italians were kidnapped near Falluja. One was murdered. His last words, caught on video, seconds before he was shot in the head, were apparently: "Now I'm going to show you how an Italian dies." His captors have since demanded that Italians demonstrate against their government. The hostages' relatives have called a march in Rome. But it is clearly billed as being in support of peace rather than the withdrawal of troops. The reaction of virtually all Italy's politicians has been to say the government must not give in to blackmail."
Source: Guardian unlimited. Via Micael Totten I found Les Jones. His comments:
"The terrorists are getting desparate and making strategic mistakes. If they had painted this as a war against the U.S., they could have played to a sympathetic audience in many places. Now they're revealing this war for what it is: a war against Western values, democracy, equality for women under the law, and constitutional, non-theocratic governments."
Let's hope he is right.
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29-04-2004

Promising developments in the blogosphere
(INTERNET)

The Living on the planet network is advancing. Within Living in Europe blogzines per country are developing. Germany has started already and the Netherlands will folow too. European 'political-economical' partner-site A Fistful Of Euros reached their first 100000 visitors and upgraded the looks of the site.
Nice, but what is really promising is that blogs of great importance like Brad deLong's semi daily journal is "connecting"; hope this can be taken completly literally.
The link is to a topic by Edward Hugh on the Financial Times article on British diplomats writing to Tony Blair that
"he is damaging UK (and western) interests by backing George W. Bush's misguided policies in the Middle East." and ...
and the FT continues:
"The diplomats were shocked into action not just by gathering signs of implosion in Iraq but by US backing for the decision of Ariel Sharon, Israeli prime minister, to keep most Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank - and Mr Blair's endorsement of this "one-sided and illegal" new policy. Downing Street insists it has not abandoned the principle of a two-state solution in Israel-Palestine and the internationally underwritten "roadmap" to it. But Mr Sharon's strategy tramples on several United Nations Security Council resolutions, and Washington and London's support for it has inflamed Arab opinion to the point where it sees Palestine and Iraq as two fronts in a war of resistance against the west - the optimal outcome for the fanatics who follow Osama bin Laden.

In Iraq itself, the letter says, the indiscriminate use of force and heavy weapons "have built up rather than isolated the opposition", while there "was no effective plan for the post-Saddam settlement". The critique is trenchant and almost wholly accurate.

Detractors say the diplomats propose no alternative. But the problem is that the mishandling of Iraq (and Israel-Palestine) has gradually closed off any plausible path forward. What this letter warns is that this is an accelerating downward spiral with no brake - and that Britain's duty as an ally is to use such influence as it has in Washington as "a matter of the highest urgency". Though the letter does not say it, it is hard to see how that meagre influence would not augment, were London to co-ordinate its position more closely with its European partners."
A commenter Meno at Brad deLongs site reacts :
"The British FP people you (-that is not Brad deLong himself but someone else reacting-; fg) are criticizing advocate careful, restrained, targetted use of violence. They think what the US is doing in Iraq is like a dentist with a Sledge-Hammer, and they'd prefer to an alliance that acts like a surgeon with a scalpel. Calling such people pacifists shows either desperate ignorance on your part (have you never met a real pacifist?), or a deliberate attempt to confuse the issue.

The British didn't edge towards peace over Northern Ireland by invading Dublin, or by sending SAS special forces teams into the US to kill those rich Americans who were funding the Provo IRA. Defusing a terrorist movement requires a very careful balance between violence and restraint."
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islam-fascisme
(REVIEWS)

"...de software waar onze sites mee worden gebouwd is eigenlijk nauwelijks gebouwd voor interactie, dus dit hebben ze niet.
Continue redactie uitvoeren is voor een Kamerlid met een halve medewerker simpelweg niet mogelijk. Misschien probeer ik het over een tijdje nog eens..."
schreef PvdA-kamerlid Diederik Samson me enige tijd geleden naar aanleiding van mijn postje over hem.

Hij blijkt inderdaad het nog eens te proberen.
De software die ze gebruiken is nog steeds niet je-van-het, -je kunt bijvoorbeeld niet eerst in een preview bekijken hoe reactie er uit komt te zien-, maar ook de instellingen zijn wat vreemd. Zo heeft hij de oudste reacties bovenaan staan, onhandig, en is het ook niet mogelijk links op te nemen in de tekst. Ik zou dat verder niet noemen als ik enthousiast was over de inhoud maar helaas: daar heb ik ook nogal wat op aan te merken.

Dit schreef ik als reactie bij zijn postje Het boek en de ophef over het boek 'De weg van de moslim':

Mijns inziens draait het om je laatste paragraaf: “Het boek 'de weg van de moslim' is een vreemd boek, en er zijn vast fundamentalistische idioten die er een onderbouwing van hun ideeen in vinden, maar dat maakt het boek zelf nog niet verwerpelijk. Verbieden is ten eerste ten principale onjuist, maar zou met dit boek ook potsierlijk zijn.”

Je doet het hier voorkomen alsof verwerpen en verbieden hetzelfde is!
In reactie op jouw opmerkingen gaan Ploeger en de haren zich in allerlei rare bochten wringen en eigenlijk ga je daar in mee. Ik heb de indruk dat dat komt omdat je toch vindt dat je mensen die over god en dergelijke praten anders moet behandelen dan andere mensen die politieke uitspraken doen; uitspraken dus over hoe mensen met elkaar om zouden moeten gaan. Waarom toch? Het zijn toch vunzige en volstrekt verwerpelijke uitspraken die ze noteerde in dat boekje? Waarom die niet met kracht verwerpen? Dat is toch nog heel wat anders dan verbieden!

Een van de gevaren van het Islam-fascisme is natuurlijk dat brave moslim burgers de dupe worden doordat ze met de fascisten op een hoop gegooid worden. Maar dat is niet het enige, zelfs niet het belangrijkste gevaar van het islam-fascisme. Wanneer je dat gekunstelde onderscheid tussen godsdienst en politiek vergeet kun je onder ogen zien dat dit boekje gewoon een van de foldertjes is van de islam-fascistische beweging. Ik denk dan aan de winterhulp van NSDAP en NSB: daarin waren zonder enige twijfel mensen actief die even zachtzinnig waren als mevr Ploeger en haar gezin. Een van de manieren waarop het terrorisme in Duitsland ging groeien voor 1933 was het steeds aggressiever worden van die collectes...

“Mevrouw Ploeger nuanceert dit citaat door te wijzen op andere teksten waarin staat dat deze straf slechts geldt voor moslims die praktiserend homo zijn en dat alleen de islamitische rechtbank deze straf mag uitspreken. Geldt dus niet in Nederland.”

Ja dus VOORLOPIG is dat nog niet aan de orde.
Er zijn er (nog?) niet veel maar er zijn in Europa al islam-fascisten die openlijk oproepen tot het omverwerpen van de democratie.

Lees het genuanceerde verhaal van Michael Totten maar eens dat hij schreef naar aanleiding van dit artikel uit de New York Times. Toch geen rechts of racistisch bolwerk dacht ik?

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28-04-2004

On the identicalness of religion and politics, part III
(CURRENT AFFAIRS)

In this post of 6 days ago I mentioned before that Kevin Drum, -he calls himself 'political animal' since he works for the Washington Monthly-, wrote on the relation between religion and politics. His post on Moqtada Al-Sadr to which I am referring here to some extend is on the same subject:
"While Moqtada's religious credentials are weak, his family's political standing is as deep as the modern history of Iraq. His grandfather was the prime minister in 1932. And this young, militant cleric didn't spontaneously emerge after the fall of Saddam Hussein. US forces now entering the city of Najaf, are up against a man who has donned the well-cultivated mantle of his father (Sadek al-Sadr), the leading Shiite thorn in the side of the Hussein regime in the 1990s."
It looks like I am quoting Kevin Drum here, but in fact I recycle his quotation of the Christian Science Monitor that he found thanks to Juan Cole. He left out this last paragraph of the CSM-article that is crucial to my point of view:
"But Sadr's men have also turned their sights on other targets, most specifically their domestic Shiite political opponents. US officials say Sadr was behind the murder of Abdel Majid al-Khoei in Najaf last April. Imam Khoei was close to the US, and had returned from exile with US funding to win supporters in Najaf. After Khoei's muder, Sadr militiamen surrounded the house of Sistani, who was briefly forced into hiding.

These incidents demonstrate Sadr's long-term aims go far beyond simply getting the US to leave Iraq. "What's happening now has more to do with the dynamics between Sistani and Sadr than it does between either of them and the coalition,'' says Patel."
My emphasis. If you forgot or never knew: Sistani is the Ayatollah Al-Sistani. The Truth Laid Bear has an interesting way of refering to Juan Cole's comparison:
"I won't leap to any huge conclusions based on a single source, but Cole's basic argument is that al-Sadr represents a Khomeni-like devotion to full-blown theocracy, whereas Sistani's view is that clerics should not be involved directly in government. I'll judge both on their actions, but the perspective was useful..."
In my book I would simply say that Sistani has a more democratic view on politics.
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Tecnicalities again; a prophecy too
(INTERNET)

As you may or may not have noticed I upgraded my weblog-software to version 2.3. of pmachine. This is free software by the way of good quality. So I am even seriously considering to 'upgrade' to their Expression engine later.
For now I stopped trying to go for CSS-only design: my hate towards the Monopolist has grown considerably in the process.
Well I am convinced that Microsoft is going to lose against open source software within 10 years. Guess I'll never now to what extend this is wish being father to the thought.
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Import-imams
(CONVICTIONS)

Op het NOS-journaal kwam vandaag de kwestie van de import-imams weer eens aan de orde.
Ik bedacht om ter gelegenheid hiervan van een oud postje een nieuwere, Engels versie te schrijven. Het eerdere postje schreef ik echter al op 22 december 2002 en had ik nog niet opgenomen in deze versie van mijn weblog. Een goede gelegenheid om het alsnog op te nemen. Ik hoef er geen woord aan te veranderen.
Afgelopen weekend ben ik met mijn weblog overgegaan naar de nieuwere versie van de pmachine-software omdat deze ook de mogelijkheid biedt van het zogenaamde trackbacken en pingbacken. Ik gebruik ook dit postje om hier wat mee te experimenteren. Dat heeft ook inhoudelijke betekenis want de verhouding tussen politiek en religie komt de laatste tijd ook uitvoerig aan de orde op een aantal van de allergrootste (lees door 10000-en mensen per dag bezochte) weblogs.

In tegenstelling tot de meeste niet-godsdienstige mensen betekent het begrip God echt helemaal niets voor mij. Als humanist vind ik dat ik mensen die belijdend godsdienstig zijn zoveel mogelijk dien te respecteren ook al kan ik me eenvoudigweg niet voorstellen dat mensen in een God geloven die macht heeft en meningen heeft.
Op politiek vlak kunnen de meeste gelovigen en ongelovigen mijns inziens er wel uitkomen met de vaststelling dat, indien er een God bestaat, diens meningen en daden zich laten zien in de woorden en daden van mensen. Omdat opvattingen of daden in de ogen van de gelovigen stroken met wat hun god er van vindt, ontslaat hen dat nog niet van hun eigen verantwoordelijkheid te bepalen hoe zij te weten zijn gekomen wat hun god er van vindt.
Consequent doorgedacht betekent dit wel dat godsdienstige uitingen niet wezenlijk verschillen van politieke.
De tierende imams die gisteren (21 december 2002) opnieuw te zien waren bij Nova ('de man is de baas over de vrouw', 'weg met de democratie', 'weg met de Nederlandse opvattingen') doen mij dan ook, vooral door de hysterische toon, eerder aan Goebbels denken dan aan dominee Paisley.
Amsterdams burgervader Job Cohen kwam weer met een reactie die door velen wordt aangeduid als "politiek-correct" maar die ik liever omschrijf als politiek wensdenken. Hij moest in een woord reageren en zijn antwoord was "Veluwe". Per se wensen sommige mensen vast te houden aan het idee, -gewoon de wens dus-, dat er geen wezenlijk verschil is tussen de positie van koran-radikalisme en bijbel-radikalisme (van enige tijd geleden).
Theoretische kletskoek. De Nederlandse bible-belt wordt gevormd door een groep mensen van constant blijvende omvang die dezelfde ideeën zijn blijven aanhangen die eeuwen geleden hier gemeengoed waren. De voorouders van deze mensen hebben hier al eeuwen gewoond.
In vergelijking daarmee gaat het bij de koran-radikalisten om een groep mensen die door verschillende oorzaken groeit in omvang: door de tegen integratie gerichte huwelijken met mensen afkomstig uit het land van herkomst van hun ouders, door het hogere kindertal en -in dit verband het belangrijkste- het aanscherpen van standpunten in reactie op de afkeuring van
de Nederlandse samenleving. Deze mensen of hun ouders wonen hier hooguit enkele tientallen jaren en een aanzienlijk deel is nog zelf hierheen geïmmigreerd.
De haat die tegen onze samenleving gepredikt wordt door de Goebbel-imams kan zonder problemen worden aangepakt door maar in het achterhoofd te houden dat er geen wezenlijk verschil is tussen godsdienstig en niet-godsdienstig geïnspireerde (politieke) propaganda. Voor propagandisten van welke politieke of godsdienstige opvatting dan ook, zou eenvoudigweg geen werkvergunning afgegeven moeten worden niet voor Afrikaanse nonnen, niet voor Amerikaanse liberalen of bijbel-bigamisten, niet voor Chinese communisten en ook niet voor Syrische imams.
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23-04-2004

Book reviews and trackback
(INTERNET)

Over at the Volokh Conspiracy, one of those blogs with over 10000 visits daily, David Bernstein is surprised the publishing industry does not send review copies to blogs.
"So, a smart university press (or even trade press) would put me on their list for review copies of law books, or at least some subset of law books, such as legal history, constitutional law, and law and science, especially because their competitors aren't doing so yet. I'm not at all offended by the lack of attention, nor am I in any need of free books. I just find it interesting that book publishers have been so slow to recognize a new medium through which they can publicize their wares."
Some kind of reverse of this turns out to be working fine already: just mentioning the book "Plan of attack" is enough to trigger All Consuming to include me in a list of links that could be of interest for readers (or potential buyers...) of the book.
This webservice somehow uses pings from weblogs. To find this out was the last push necessary to convince me to include trackback / pingback on my site too. This however implies that I have to upgrade to a newer version of pmachine (to 2.3).
So that is what I am going to do now. If, after some time, this post is still on top you know that upgrading introduced some problems.
I take the opportunity to try to get rid of tables in my HTML as well (using CSS alone like I know I should since I read some things of Zeldman in a Java-course). I am afraid this means some extra effort because of the differences between browsers while I want to at least serve both the monopolist and Mozilla).
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22-04-2004

Liberals and religion
(INTERNET)

Thanks to a contribution I made at Butterflies and Wheels based on my post Compare religion with politics, not with science" I was invited by an Indian magazine to write a little essay on the subject.
I was a little surprised by the invitation because the contribution on wich the magazine based its invitation was a rather simple and straitforward one.
Now that I read the post of political animal Kevin Drum and the number and contents ofl the comments he gets when writing about "Liberals and Religion" I understand their invitation better and have decided to really write a contribution for their magazine. I will post it here too of course.
I am very curious if such an appearance in print will effect the number of visitors on my site.
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20-04-2004

Dubbele bodems?
(CURRENT AFFAIRS)

Via Republikeins Weblog lees ik net dat de groepsblog Geenstijl er mee gestopt is en dat als het ware gevierd heeft met een extra stijlloze grap: ze beweerden dat een van de redacteuren thuis was opgezocht en zwaar mishandeld was en ze nu de handdoek in de ring gooiden. Honderden mensen reageerden verontwaardigd. Ook Adriaan; hij is wel zo eerlijk om zijn vergissing op zijn blog te laten staan.
Je blijft met de vraag zitten waarom die mensen dit nu leuk vinden.
Misschien wilden ze iets goedmaken door een deel van hun "aanhang" uit te lokken tot verkeerde uitspraken zoals:
"Sterkte Chileen & de rest!
Dit is echt te triest voor woorden!! Ik hoop echt dat ze die k*nkerlijers te pakken krijgen, maar vooral dat hun namen vervolgens worden gepubliceerd."
Heel krom in ieder geval. Een persoon becommentarieerde: "dit was heel ongepast, maar daardoor weer gepast".
Het is wel een dilemma voor bloggers, maar ook voor journalisten: door snel te willen reageren, -dat wordt toch vaak nagestreefd, als kwaliteit beschouwd-, wordt beknibbeld op het checken van de mogelijkheid of een bericht wel klopt, of de bron niet zwaar partijdig is of, zoals in dit geval, er een nogal zieke grap wordt uitgehaald.
Een serieus probleem waar bijvoorbeeld ook John F Kerry mee worstelt: zie het postje hieronder. Wanneer hij te lang wacht met reageren of te veel nadruk legt op de mogelijkheid dat de beschuldiging, -dat George Bush Saoedi Arabie gevraagd heeft er aan bij te dragen dat enige tijd voor de presidentsverkiezingen de olieprijzen zullen dalen zodat de economische vooruitzichten tijdelijk gunstiger zouden zijn en daarmee de kans op zijn herverkiezing-, misschien niet klopt verliest zijn reactie mogelijk aan kracht. Als de beschuldiging dan juist blijkt zal hem die traagheid worden verweten.
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GWB clinging to power the way Mugabe, Castro and Arafat do ?
(CURRENT AFFAIRS)

Now that bloghop.com seems to be having some problems (I could not reach it for several days in succession) I started to search Blogarama for interesting political or economical sites.
The first one, by the Canadian Voxpopgirl had an item on Woodwards book Plan of Attack about Bush's plans for war on Iraq, and much, much more. She is strongly in presenting herself as to the left. So possibly she is to quick in believing that indeed Saudi prince Bandar was informed of the attack on Iraq before Powell was but an even more alarming issue has already been at Forbes to: the promise by Prince Bandar that Saudi Arabia will lower oil prices in the months before the election!
If this is the real truth...then GWB is clinging to power for the sake of it the way Mugabe, Castro and Arafat do.

‘update’The problem with blogs like Voxpopgirl's as well as with books like the ones by Woodward ( ) is that they are so disgusted that they fail to focus on the most important issues.
Just while I am writing this, a newsitem appears that “Woodward backtracks on denials” (Washington Post):
"Powell, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and Saudi Arabia's ambassador to Washington Prince Bandar bin Sultan have all denied top U.S. officials informed Bandar of the decision to go to war against Iraq before Powell had been informed of the plan.
Woodward Tuesday denied he had claimed Powell was left out of the war planning in his new book, "Plan of Attack."
"I never said that," he said on NBC's "Today" show. Secretary Powell, Woodward said, "is disputing things that I don't say."
It turns out that Kerry focuses on the same issue of Woodwards book I would:
"Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry on Monday ....... criticized President Bush over a report that he had struck a deal with Saudi officials to lower gasoline prices before the election.
"If ... it is true that gas supplies and prices in America are tied to the American election, tied to a secret White House deal, that is outrageous and unacceptable to the American people," Kerry said during a campaign stop in Florida. "If this sounds wrong to you, that's because it is fundamentally wrong."
What should I hope for? From the Saudi side the allegation is not denied!
"Saudi ambassador to the U.S. Prince Bandar bin Sultan said Monday that ex-President Clinton sought a secret deal to keep oil prices low before the 2000 election, explaining that the request was nothing unusual. ..
"We always want any president who is in office to be reelected," Bin Sultan explained, while stressing that his hope for lower oil prices was not a direct effort to influence the outcome of the U.S. election.”
Bin Sultan claimed that Carter asked for a similar action.
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19-04-2004

A must visit more often
(INTERNET)

Just today I found the amazing site of Global security. This really is the kind of site we need more of. Independent, realistic and committed. The mission:
"GlobalSecurity.org is focused on innovative approaches to the emerging security challenges of the new millennium. The organization seeks to reduce reliance on nuclear weapons and the risk of their use -- both by existing nuclear weapons states and those states seeking to acquire such capabilities. GlobalSecurity.org aims to shift American conventional military forces towards new capabilities aligned with the post-Cold War security environment, and to reduce the worldwide incidence of deadly conflict. The organization is working to improve the capabilities of the American intelligence community to respond to new and emerging threats, reducing the need to resort to the use of force, while enhancing the effectiveness of military forces when needed. GlobalSecurity.org also supports new initiatives utilizing space technology to enhance international peace and security.”
I am still looking for a similar site on economy!.
To some extent the Global Economic Forum of Morgan Stanley is a candidate, -that thought came to mind after reading and rereading the piece of Andy Xie that you can read at Lloyd's site and is commented on Bonoboland-, but that is not an independent one. As a consequence the contents is left very shortly on the site.
Maybe one day Bonoboland can step in here?
There is one backdraw: the independence of the site makes it vulnerable when it comes to funding it. So I ask some extra attention here:

image


(Some praise in Dutch)
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Technicalities?
(INTERNET)

You may, or may not, have noticed I am still making some minor adjustments to the lay-put of my site. I keep having trouble with the different way the browsers handle the blocks with headlines from outside my blog (EU-observer and Argmax).
Layout is of some importance I am afraid. The surprisingly low number of visitors on the site of Lloyd Gillespie for example can at least partly be blamed on his lousy lay-out.
Further more I did some cleaning of the links. Several city-council members lost their link because their site is not interactive.
Funny to note that one of them who operated as member of the Christian Democrats (CDA) is now independent. In my opinion this is part of a trend: politicians that have a weblog tend to be more independent. A few months ago a social democrat in Amsterdam stopped his weblog after pressure from his party. The interaction between weblogging politicians of different parties is much stronger then between the rest of the politicians it seems.
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17-04-2004

Not political suicide
(CURRENT AFFAIRS)

Dutch newspaper Volkskrant(registration needed) had a poll on the question should Europe seriously consider Bin Laden's truce offer? Results:

image

Well it's just a little more then 2000 reactions with almost 500 choosing the "coward" position of "we have to do everything to prevent a second Madrid 9-3".
In my post below I wrote "And the other side of this is really crucial: when US-politics succeeds in involving European (and other democratic countries!) in Iraq and the greater middle east issues, these countries will be targeted by the islam-fascists. The politicians of these allied countries will have to to be open about this and defend it!" At least this poll suggests that this policy is not political suicide.
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"Bill Clinton caused 9/11"
(CURRENT AFFAIRS)

Reading various (sometimes explicitly) centrist sites I found myself looking in my own posts for a theory on what kind of candidate is needed in US-presidential elections to win against the president in office running for his second term.
I found it via a comment I posted at A fistful of euros. The reason why I did not find it at my own site was that I had posted it in Dutch....
The theory I was looking for is called Rall's rule of ideological balance. Interesting to read again now. Rall wrote it when it could be interpreted as a reassurence for people being afraid that Dean's candidature was to radical. In present terms the question is a different one: what is the effect on his chances to win in November of Kerry is pushing for withdrawal of all troops from Iraq (to) soon.
(see my previous post on Kerry and Iraq).
Ironically I found that the same Ted Rall had a very interesting on just this issue a couple of days ago: Bill Clinton caused 9/11.
Because I found out that Rall does not leave his articles on his site very long extensive quoting here:
" I happened to cross the Khunjerab Pass into Kashmir during the same week that General Pervez Musharraf seized power via a military coup. Unbeknownst to me and most of the world, Musharraf's first act was to invite Taliban and Al Qaeda militias from neighboring Afghanistan into Pakistani Kashmir as surrogates to launch an offensive in his country's ongoing conflict against India.
Three Talibs, one of whom spoke fluent English ("NYU! Class of '83!" he beamed), pulled me off the bus at an improvised checkpoint outside a town where a minor battle was winding down. Taliban leader Mullah Omar had recently issued an edict directing that Americans, including diplomatic passport holders, were to be put to death if apprehended on Taliban territory. "We are sorry," the Talib said blandly, "but you are American. Therefore, we must execute you."...
"The worst thing about you Americans," I remember the Talib saying, "is that you never admit when you make mistakes. Last year, your President Clinton sent his cruise missile against a drug plant in Khartoum, Sudan. He killed many innocent people. Does he say he is sorry? No. The same day he sent cruise missiles against my country. Again: only innocent people were killed."
Actually, the Afghan strike had missed bin Laden--who had claimed responsibility for the bombings of the American embassies in East Africa--by hours. He was probably tipped off by intelligence officers of the Pakistani ISI. I didn't bring up these unpleasant facts.
"America causes misery everywhere--Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan--but not in America." His face brightened. "But no more. We are going to bring the war to you, so your country learns what it is like."
Bring the war to America: The same phrase bin Laden had used in interviews....
It wasn't, as Bush says, because radical Islamists are evil or because they hate our freedom. It was vengeance for 1998, for cruise missile attacks that scarcely raised an eyebrow in the United States even as they convulsions of rage surged through millions of Muslims. It's perfectly reasonable, therefore, to blame Bill Clinton for 9/11, but not because he didn't do enough. What led to 9/11 was a clumsy application of excessive military power and arrogance.
It's a lesson that the United States, so accustomed to swinging a sledgehammer to kill a fly, should take to heart in its dealings with the rest of humanity.
Wise words.
They are special because of the amazing reaction of Bush when asked what he learned from mistakes after 9-11 (see post below)
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On the similarity between Bush and Balkenende again
(QUOTES)
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires"
Susan B. Anthony

Found this quote in John Kerry's blog on a post on Bush, apparently unable to come up with anything when asked "after 9-11, what would your biggest mistake be, would you say, and what lessons have you learned from it?".
A guy calling himself "BeatW" wonders
"..Can't we just run on the fact that the President is stupid? I mean we can debate policy, economics, outsourcing, terroism, the Iraq war, and whatever else you want. But, it is PAINFULLY clear that Bush is not all there."
As I wrote before: "The opponents of both Bush and Balkenende have a very hard time to cope with the fact that they manage to get away with acts and statements they would never get away with themselves. I am afraid (but pretty sure) that Bush' supporters feel solidarity with him when attacked on these grounds."
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Bonoboland
Living in Europe
Quotes:
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires"
Susan B. Anthony
Elaboration...
Figures
The Top 200 corporations' combined sales are bigger than the combined economies of all countries minus the biggest 9; that is they surpass the combined economies of 182 countries. . Their combined global employment is only 18.8 million, which is less than a third of one-hundredth of one percent of the world's people.
Elaboration...

Often read; contributing sometimes

Living on the Planet
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