June 02, 2004 • by Andrei Herasimchuk • Design
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Gurus v. Bloggers, Round 2
You begged. You pleaded. You tried to bribe me to pimp your work in this next post. (Ok… so one tried to bribe me, but I can be bought. Hint hint.)
So I’ve toiled away to bring you an all new round of the world’s leading experts in the field of high-technology design versus those down in the trenches fighting the good fight day in and day out. Yes, ladies and gents, at the risk of alienating all those folk whom I might have to work with in the future, it’s time for an all new Gurus v. Bloggers. And hey, check out the purty new logo, courtesy of master craftsman Jon Hicks!
Playing for the Gurus this time around? We have Brenda Laurel, John Maeda, Christina Wodtke, Jesse James Garret, Eric Meyer, and Nathan Shedroff. And to keep the trend of poking some light hearted fun at the experts while also eating my own special brand of dog food, your trustworthy Narrator will once again bat for the Home Team.
Also, because everyone thought I was out of mind when stacking a certain individual in the first Battle Royale, I’ve brought back the biggest blogger heavyweight of them all from Gurus v. Bloggers, Round 1. Yes, that’s right, Mr. Zeldman himself! Only now he’s now in his rightful spot on the Gurus side of the fence. The Gurus have a fighting chance finally. [Stop snickering in the back, please.]
For the Bloggers? We have Angie McKaig, Ben Fry, Veerle Pieters, Bob Baxley, Dave Shea, Shaun Inman, and Luke Wroblewski. Plus, I have a surprise twist of events that rivals the season finale shocker on Survivor that gave Rupert an extra cool million. You’ll just have to read on to find out what happens.
Laurel v. McKaig
Because I’ve been outspoken in the past on the lack of XX representation in certain high-profile blogging circles, even committing the crime myself in assembling the Design Fab Five, I thought I’d start this round of competition with a much needed estrogen boost.
If you don’t know Brenda Laurel, chances are you probably haven’t been to many design conferences or done enough reading about design and high-technology. That or you’ve had your head buried in the sand trying to avoid the real world. Laurel has authored and edited so many design books and spoken at so many design events that one wonders when she has time to do anything else — especially teach, where she does so at the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, California. But we know the rules of this game. There’s simply no good excuse knowing that when you’re feeling lucky on Google searching on Brenda Laurel’s name, you get this result. Dig the tattoo. Don’t dig the web site.
Compare that to when you type in Angie McKaig into Google. Maybe I’m biased because I grew up a few miles from where guitarist Billy Gibbons called home, but McKaig’s got legs, and yes, she knows how to use them. (I had to work in a ZZ Top reference into my blog at some point in time. Forgive me.) McKaig uses a great typography, clean layout, playful illustrations, held together by snappy content. Besides, who can deny the brilliance of the woman behind Pampered Puppy? Dogs rule.
Winner: McKaig
Maeda v. Fry
It’s the teacher versus the student. How can I possibly do this? How can I be so cruel as to pit these two against each other? In public even? Oh, come on. If Maeda or Fry ever do happen to read this, I’m sure the Prof will be taking Lil’ Ben out for a beer at a pub near MIT soon after to have a good laugh.
To the point. John Maeda is easily on of the road to becoming one of the most influential figures in high-tech design. His upcoming book, Creative Code promises to be a ground breaking book. Yet, for someone that promotes simplicity, his web site seems to openly contradict that philosophy with a lot of visually complicated thumbnails and competing typographic treatments.
As for Ben Fry, I’ve only met him once briefly — he’s a good friend of the wife. He’s also a worthy student of Maeda’s, having learned well during his attendance at MIT. Some of the examples you’ll find perusing his web site are simply killer. If you have the time, be sure to check out Zip Code, Iraq Casualities, Genome Valence, and Revisionist. The heck with it… Check out all of them. Combine all those examples of work with a home page that is both simple in presentationa and straight-forward in design, you can see Fry has taken the Maeda mantra around simplicity and executed it flawlessly.
Besides, I had to find an excuse to put Maeda on this list because I can’t for the life of me figure out that old school pixelated logo for Simplicity. I mean… No… there’s nothing diplomatic I can say about it. That logo simply must go!
Winner: Fry
Wodtke v. Pieters
It’s a good thing Christina Wodtke was quoted as an expert in the recent flap over Greg Storey’s White House memo design in the Wall Street Journal. Now I have another XX representative to add to the batting order for the Gurus! By Wodtke’s own description, she’s an information architect, and not a graphic designer. No problem, we’ll leave the visual and typographic treatment off to the side for now. Instead, follow me down the yellow brick road — in a separate window if you have the screen real estate.
Starting on Wodtke’s Elegant Hack home page, click the Gleanings link. Now click the Case Studies link found in the top navigation area. Surprised? Alright, we’ll cheat a little. Go ahead and hit the Back button. Now click the Widgetopia link. Ah! well, at least here the navigation is present, although the change in appearance is a bit startling. Now click the Me link.
Lost? Not to worry. Hit the Back button twice to get back to the Gleanings blog section.
Contrast that to Veerle Pieters blog. Now, mind you, Pieters is no information architect — at least not that I’m aware of — so maybe I’m comparing apples to oranges. But Veerle.com uses an anchored navigation scheme that is easy to use and intuitive. Click on any method of navigation along the left sidebar, and while the content changes the navigation scheme stays consistent and firmly in place. Pretty hard to get lost if you ask me. Combine that with the great design, style and content then you have a knockout blog.
Winner: Pieters
Garrett v. Baxley
In that corner, we have Adaptive Path’s own Jesse James Garrett and his Elements of User Experience diagram. In this corner, we have Bob Baxley and his Universal Model of the User Interface diagram. One of these days, I will write a lengthy essay on my opinion of these two models. (I’m sure everyone is on pins and needles to read what should become a Pulitzer worthy essay.) But this is Gurus v. Bloggers, a look at the web sites representing the contestants. This is not When Diagrams Attack.
So, a quick look at Garret’s web site, especially a prominent piece of it — his own information portal. Wow. What can I say? I mean, really… What can I say? Nothing comes to mind. Anyone who knows me knows how serious it is when I say that for the first time in my life on this planet, I am rendered speechless.
…
…
…
Gotta shake it off.
…
…
The only thing I can think of is that it takes work to make something look like that.
Over to Baxley’s site and you get a professional, clean, savvy presentation that would speak to any CEO looking to add design as a vital component of their web offering. Easy to read, crisp layout, clean illustrations and photography. Now all we need to do is get Bob to update his content. He’s pimping me from when I launched DxF back in January! That was the stone age in Internet time. (He claims he’s adding a few items after I threatened him with putting him on the Blogger’s team. Not fair!) Still though, it’s no contest here.
Winner: Baxley
Meyer’s CSS Edge v. Shea’s Zen Garden
Next up we have the giant in the work that is known as Cascading Style Sheets — Eric Meyer’s head is so full of CSS tech goodness and knowledge that yes, I knew I couldn’t put him up against any single person and feel right about it. I myself owe much to the man for his wealth of knowledge he so graciously posts on his web site. But still, I decided I had to put him up against the brain child of one of his best students, David Shea.
So, in Meyer’s corner, we have CSS Edge. First big problem? The low contrast presentation. It doesn’t make scanning the site easy on the eyes to say the least. Yet, intense study of the content there takes one’s knowledge of CSS then quintuples it’s value. There can be no argument about that fact. Maybe if Meyer had used orange for CSS Edge, because orange is after all the new black, I would be able to swing the vote the other way.
Over to the Zen Garden. While you don’t get an explanation on much of the goodness that is CSS in technical detail, you can’t help but sit in awe as you click then click then click again through the lists of various designs. The rush of blood to the head as your eyes take in the true power of presentation separated from content, then reworked and redesign over and over only serves to create a design geek’s ultimate high. Better than sex? Do you really have to ask?
Oh… This is tough. Damn tough. I mean, this is the kind of call a referee makes during the Super Bowl that for all intents and purposes, proves to the world that the game of all games is rigged. Fundamentally flawed even. Stacked to only let those in the know rake in the cash. Everyone can see the instant replay. Everyone knows the deal.
But still… I’m going to have to chalk it up to promoting both sites for those who wander into reading this article from a generous TrackBack, then call it a day. Hate mail be damned! I have set out to keep these contests a no-win situation for the Gurus, and I must follow through, taking my cues from the lessons presented by the Liberal Media.
Winner: Shea’s Zen Garden
Shedroff v. Inman
Nathan Shedroff has been hailed as a master of user experience design. Shaun Inman just masters experience.
A stop over to Shedroff’s web site and you have to be impressed — a cool aesthetic, some great eye candy. But what’s with the 6px rendered type in the navigational system? And the low contrast typography? And the really sporadic layout and use of graphics? As it stands, Shedroff’s web site looks like a throwback to some Peter Saville inspired design of the dotcom boom. (Not that I don’t like Saville. The man’s a rock star in the design world.) Nathan! Baby! One word: Redesign. One more word: Now.
Everyone who is anyone is doing it.
What can one say about Shaun Inman’s web site that hasn’t already been said? Everyone gushes over the guy. It’s like watching young teenie-boppers scream and cry in the presence of the King or the Beatles. Checking out Inman’s web site proves why he deserves so much attention. Standards compliant, edgy use of technology, cool CSS and Flash tricks. Details! Inman’s got more lush detail and technical prowess than a Peter Greenaway movie. Damn does his web site just ooze user experience design or what? He has me in tears.
Winner: Inman
Herasimchuk v. Wroblewski
[Expletive.] Here I am again — playing on the side of Gurus. I never learn.
There’s nothing to say about Design by Fire that hasn’t been said before. (At least by me.) But, like a great industrial band from the late 80s and early 90s, self-referential essays with a good sprinkling of links pointing back to my own content seems to be the right medicine for the cause.
Having said that, there always comes a time when I look at others web sites and think to myself, “What the [expletive] was I thinking? My work sucks rocks.” I admit, this is my first blog and I feel I’ve learned a ton in the process nurturing its existence into the world these past five months. What seems to work using as simple a design as I can muster, dealing with MoveableType and its template scheme, dealing with Apache and PHP. But that’s no excuse. When a guy like me sees a web site by a guy like Luke Wroblewski, I start sweating bullets knowing I need to rethink my entire design strategy. To add insult to injury, Wroblewski’s content and writing about interface design is both prolific and insightful. So I’m getting hammered on multiple fronts.
Sigh. Back to the drawing board.
Winner: Wroblewski
Zeldman v. Sahlén
What? This was the big surprise? Who is this Johan Sahlén guy? Never heard of him? What could I be thinking? Zeldman is going to trounce this kid easy.
I mean, look at Zeldman’s site! Wait. Ok… Back a up a moment… Look at Zeldman’s site after setting the proper contrast. There’s no denying the satisfaction of watching Zeldman practice what he preaches. His site uses some of the cleanest code known throughout the world wide web. His various designs and redesigns always inspire. Zeldman.com is the epitome of cool, while maintaining accessibility, usefulness and forward thinking design.
But hey, one looks at Sahlén’s Excessive Style and one has to be impressed. A color palette that soothes and calms. Simple, yet sensible use of typography. Sahlén’s coded his site to web standards, fussy as it may be. He’s even got me thinking green is the new orange.
However, the crucial thing here is this: Sahlén was born in 1985.
Let me repeat that: 1985.
That was the year that Billy Joel married Christie Brinkley. That was a few years after both Blade Runner and Raiders of the Lost Ark were playing in real movie theaters, which tells you how old Harrison Ford is these days. That was a year AFTER the first Macintosh hit the market! I don’t know about you, but I was dressing in black turtlenecks dancing to Depeche Mode in trendy new wave discos in Texas when this kid let out the primordial scream after getting smacked on the ass by the Good Doctor. Further, when I was 19, I was designing crappy logos, crude technical manuals and whacked-out PowerPoint presentations while living in Chicago. Ask Jason Fried. I was a poser.
Sahlén’s no poser. For that, he gets to lay out the knockout punch to the Gurus, taking down the King of the Web — the one and only Zeldman!
Winner: Sahlén
Was it good for you?
Another shutout: Bloggers, 8. Gurus, Zilch.
I can’t believe it’s come and gone so fast. Another round of Gurus v. Bloggers has hit the Google archive, to be read three hundred years from now by folks a thousand times smarter than any of use could ever hope to be. It’ll be analyzed, deciphered, and pondered over for ages to come. Yet, all we are left with is the spectacle of witnessing another competition where the Bloggers completely owned. Again.
It’s time to open our eyes to the carnage. Beyond the CSS Zen Garden, go browse the sites like CSS Vault, CSS Beauty and The Web Standards Awards. It’ll leave you with an awe inspiring feeling that we are witnessing a design event equivalent to The Big One that will some day take out California. Things are a’changin’ people. Get on board or swim with the fishes.
Just when will all this commentary on Gurus and Bloggers end on DxF? Probably after Gurus v. Bloggers, Round 3. The rule of three cannot be denied. But then again… Who knows? Maybe there won’t be enough Gurus for the Bloggers to own in Round 3? Maybe in Round 3 the Gurus will smack down the upstart Bloggers for a change? One would think that by the time Round 3 is ready for posting that the Gurus — after suffering two crushing rounds of Blogger ownage — would have gotten it together a little bit and hired some high profile web designers to fix their sites.
Hey… I’m not the best illustrator in the world, but at least I’m forking over some product to Jon Hicks for helping me out on the visual side with that new GvB logo. A lesson for every Guru out there to learn.
Round 3? I guess we’ll have to collective hold our breath to find out what happens. Until then…
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Comments 
1 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 01:13 AM
Haha… fantastic!
Hey wait a minute, isn’t that Zeldman’s signature blue hat under “Bloggers” in the logo? I thought he was on the Gurus team!
2 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 01:15 AM
Shhhhhh…
3 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 02:42 AM
Very entertaining read, here I thought Zeldman was unbeatable. I find it funny you put yourself on the guru’s side both times and both times, the bloggers win commandedly, ya know, its okay to win occasionally too! Great work, another classic post.
4 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 03:12 AM
Re: Herasimchuk v. Wroblewski
May I demand a re-count?
5 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 03:50 AM
Hey - you might’ve told me that you were going to put Zeldman on the Guru’s side!! Sheesh - clients!!! ;o)
Thanks Andrei - as entertaining as always.
6 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 04:08 AM
Wait, wait, wait… they had trendy new wave discos in Texas?? Amusing and enlightening, Andrei, just as we’ve come to expect from you!
And thanks for the mention and the kind words. :)
(Psst. Your new computer will arrive by courier next week.)
7 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 04:09 AM
Poor gurus. Perhaps some enterprising designers could make some coin with a few layouts.
So you paid Hicks off in Product. Does Adobe give you software to use as legal tender? Just like in prison :D
After the dust settles in round three you could gather your Dream Team of bloggers and gurus to be sent to the Web Olympics.
8 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 04:47 AM
Always a pleasure and a surprise (certainly this time :o) to read your articles. The funny thing is I woke up this morning feeling like I was in a struggling fight, since I had a bit of a spinning head (and no, it wasn’t because of a night on the town)… you must have read my mind… or I am in a desperate need of a holiday ;-)
9 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 08:29 AM
Great as always!
Also, I see that Jason Santa Maria is posting here, so let me just say that if there is a third round, I vote for him to be in the lineup. He’s obviously more than a blogger, but is he a guru? Hmm… He’s shown me the way on a few things, but regardless, I pity the poor schmuck who goes head to head with him.
For me, another side benefit of this article is that it introduced me to new people I need to put on my daily reads. Angie McKaig I had heard of, but had never been to her site.
Thanks again, Andrei!
10 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 08:42 AM
Hahaha! Excellent as always! I can’t believe that IA lady’s site is so bad. The navigation completely changing between pages? Might be time for some Usability Architecture™!
Definately seems like you’re running out of Gurus … maybe you’ll have to start pitting Bloggers versus each other pretty soon.
11 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 09:09 AM
I can see the title now, Bloggers vs Bloggers Free For All Deathmatch, Round 3!!
12 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 09:23 AM
Wow… The Zeldman getting taken down by a 19 year old. Sounds like some weird Kobe Bryant/R. Kelley reverse-twilight-zone thing.
But seriously, Sahlén seems very talented, and especially when so young. Minus two self-esteem points for me.
13 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 09:26 AM
Thank you for this funny article and pointing me to the “universal model of a user interface”!
14 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 09:42 AM
Zeldman goes down? It was staged. I think Zeldman is a spy for the bloggers if you ask me. Take note of the zeldman hat in the logo, as mentioned before.
Nice work again Andrei!
15 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 10:50 AM
Great read, Awesome Logo! Looking forward to whose behind the doors of G vs. B III.
(trendy new wave discos in Texas??)
16 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 11:58 AM
When is a guru going to pit gurus against bloggers based on content?
;o)
17 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 12:26 PM
Man I love these contests. Great job to the bloggers!
Andrei, great blogger vs guru logo. I like the shiny effect :)
No offense to the gurus, but how does someone like Brenda Laurel write books on design and attend similar events, yet have a site that visually looks like it does? Baffles my mind.
Keep up the good work Andrei.
18 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 12:39 PM
No offense to the gurus, but how does someone like Brenda Laurel write books on design and attend similar events, yet have a site that visually looks like it does?
No doubt she could have a better site, but realize that ‘design’ is MUCH broader than simply visual aesthetics. Many of these gurus are experts in a specific subset of design. Many aren’t experts (or even necessarily skilled) in aesthetic visual design.
That’s not an excuse for having a bad site, of course.
It’s sort of like visiting a Plumber’s house. I’d expect the plumbing to be emaculate and in complete working oreder. I’d expect him to have a really nice house as well, since he is in the building/construction trades, but I wouldn’t necessarily think he’s a bad plumber just because his house is ugly.
19 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 01:56 PM
well, really. since only one of the gurus is actually a visual designer, this “contest” is a little predictable. maybe next time you could pick well-known designers vs lesser-known designers and see who comes out on top? on the other hand, I expect most of the gurus are just too busy doing paid work to spend a whole lot of time dinking around with their personal sites.
20 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 02:19 PM
No doubt she could have a better site, but realize that ‘design’ is MUCH broader than simply visual aesthetics. Many of these gurus are experts in a specific subset of design. Many aren’t experts (or even necessarily skilled) in aesthetic visual design.
Sure, but think of it as a diamond merchant (one lived next to me): His house may look like crap (it did) but his car was a shiny new porsche, as he used that to visit clients.
When you’re in the design bussiness, clients will visit you on the web, so you’d better have a pretty solid website!
21 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 03:12 PM
No doubt she could have a better site, but realize that ‘design’ is MUCH broader than simply visual aesthetics.
No really? Wow… That’s been my problem! And to think, how on Earth could I pull off Design Eye not realizing such an important concept. Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?
22 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 03:17 PM
When you’re in the design bussiness, clients will visit you on the web, so you’d better have a pretty solid website!
and which of these gurus is doing less business than the bloggers?
23 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 03:28 PM
…since only one of the gurus is actually a visual designer, this “contest” is a little predictable.
You thought I wrote this satire as a comment just about “visual” design? You might want to read the article again. Only this time, read it. Don’t skim it.
…maybe next time you could pick well-known designers vs lesser-known designers and see who comes out on top.
Errrrr…. I did.
Folks like you crack me up. I can’t tell somedays whether I enjoy the positive comments on DxF, or the comments like yours. Why?…
… I expect most of the gurus are just too busy doing paid work to spend a whole lot of time dinking around with their personal sites.
…Because they always seem to end up with great excuses.
24 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 03:53 PM
Sure, but think of it as a diamond merchant (one lived next to me): His house may look like crap (it did) but his car was a shiny new porsche, as he used that to visit clients.
I really don’t want to be buying diamonds from someone driving a shiny new porshe. I’d think his/her price markup is perhaps a tad too high. ;o)
You have a point…if you plan to solicit clients via your web site, it should be a good one. My guess is that a lot of the consultants are hired for their specific talents and have a fairly robust network already established…making their sites probably not their top priority. A blogger, on the other hand, is obviously a blogger solely because of their web site. So they have a bit more interest in keeping that up to par.
No really? Wow… That’s been my problem! And to think, how on Earth could I pull off Design Eye not realizing such an important concept. Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?
I think you completely understand this Andrei. Did I imply you didn’t with my response to Bryan?
I do think you are comparing apples to oranges for the sake of riling folks up a bit. Nothing wrong with that. This is a blog afterall. ;o)
(BTW, for some reason, I can’t get the ‘remember personal info’ to actually remember me. Using FireFox/Windows)
25 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 03:59 PM
To clarify comment #21: I was speaking specifically when I should have said it more broadly, not responding directly to Darrel who was repsonding to Bryan and not myself.
The point for me is that I’ve been trying to write about issues on the entirety of design. To have people focus in specific areas is fine, but for those people who choose to work in the field of design, even a specific aspect of the field that has a direct impact on design, must always pay attention to everything one does that is an expression of their work in the world. That’s content, aesethics, usability, emotional connection, logic, technology, etc.
Further, IMHO, people need to stop make excuses for those who get paid very well in this business. They’re all adults, and I’m sure they can take care of themselves.
26 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 04:10 PM
They’re all adults, and I’m sure they can take care of themselves.
Then why the need to publicly critique their personal sites?
;o)
27 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 05:23 PM
Because it makes me feel superior Darrel! 8^)
Seriously though, because I think the experts I’ve been calling out should know that this is all in good fun (at least I hope they do), and yet at the same time, there are hopefully interesting issues for all designers to think about and consider when they scan through the various examples, both on the “Gurus” side and the “Bloggers” side.
28 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 05:30 PM
Yay! GvB is back.
Coupla thoughts: does Zeldman really exist? Kidding. Sorry - back to meaningful things:
*gasp* look at angiemckaig.com/about/ … it says she’s a … a guru. Who can I trust? I am hopelessly confused! Seriously, though, I love how hip her site is - and the well-placed sketch gives the perfect dose of organic feel.
As for Sahlén - amazing. Seeing somebody my age out there blew me away. I better go get to work. :)
29 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 09:10 PM
… I still have 2 years to become better than Sahlén. Time is ticking aways.
30 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 09:16 PM
Alright you two… stop it. You’re making me feel old. I might have to start relaying stories about my experience using MacPaint on a 128k Mac… You do know what kind of machine that was, right?
The joys of FatBits!
31 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 10:06 PM
Hehe, very funny. For a minute there, I thought that the gurus might finally score a win with Zeldman. But no sir, that Sahlén guy has a excellent site.
When is a guru going to pit gurus against bloggers based on content?
That’d be a good read.
32 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 10:15 PM
I might have to start relaying stories about my experience using MacPaint on a 128k Mac… You do know what kind of machine that was, right?
Um… no…
I really dont! (I’m not kidding). Sorry to make you feel old! I didn’t even have a computer before Win2k.
33 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 11:21 PM
Having lived through blogger, graymatter and movabletype, which I helped with, and now drupal, I still consider myself a blogger first. Though I don’t mind the promotion.
However, I now throw myself at the feet of the masters, demanding a “design eye” makeover!
34 •
on June 3, 2004 @ 11:52 PM
I am not so sure on the Zeldman front. The young upstart has some pretty good content, but the design seems to be pretty generic. Compare this to Zeldman’s (personal) site. Z’s layout has a much better use of white (brown) space and the text is less dense, making it easier to follow, despite the amazingly low contrast. Then again, I am not a designer.
That said, the kid’s got chops! 1985, eh? I should just give it all up now.
35 •
on June 4, 2004 @ 01:37 AM
I think it would be interesting to see the bloggers take a shot at designing the guru’s website that they were up against. I honestly wonder what Sahlén would come up with for Zeldman’s site.
36 •
on June 4, 2004 @ 03:16 AM
I just have a comment about Laurel’s site. Many of you seem to have some excuse as to why she shouldn’t need a better looking visual site and such, but I think there is one thing everyone is overlooking.
What about the fun in it? I mean, in my world anyway, and maybe I am completely ignorant, designers are designers because they want to be. It is a fun job. If I didn’t care about liking my job, I would be doing something completely different for far more money.
A personal site is basically a designer’s playground. Where else can you get away with doing absolutely anything you want? Surely not on a client’s site.
I don’t care how much of a ‘guru’ someone is or how many books they have written, having a site like that is pretty sad. I surely would never sign up for her class based on that. But then, maybe I am missing something?
37 •
on June 4, 2004 @ 05:35 AM
*1985* … He’s *19* …Johan Sahlén is *19* … Man, I’m feeling old.
Another hysterically funny look at the ‘blogger/guru debate. Thanks Andrei.
38 •
on June 4, 2004 @ 06:29 AM
A tip for those who wanted the “gurus” to score at least one point: had them compete with mine ;-)
39 •
on June 4, 2004 @ 08:38 AM
I’m going to read this later, but something form the intro caught my attention…
Creative minds watch ‘reality’ TV???
…
I need some time to wrap my head around this paradox. I’ll be back…
40 •
on June 4, 2004 @ 08:58 AM
Christina, when I saw you were attempting Drupal… I almost wanted to tell you how bad it would be, but it was tough love staying silent so you could discover how horrible Drupal is, powerful as it may be. I myself dropped dealing with it after a mere three hours of fiddling. I’m a masochist, but only slightly.
Having said that, I would love to have the guys work on EH if you were up for it. Heck, maybe we can even break the rules a bit and let you rework your own IA across all your blogs as we weave our way through how the design process works with the kind of process you are used to.
We’ll have to see. I have to ask the guys.
41 •
on June 4, 2004 @ 10:02 AM
I’m gonna have to second the comment on Zeldman - I think that he should come out on top in that contest, as much as you wanted the bloggers to win. Why not pit Zeldman against Jason Santa Maria :) Then he’d go down. But our amazement at Sahlen’s age really shouldn’t win the contest in my opinion; the site just isn’t as good as Zeldman’s, though it’s darn good for a 19-year-old.
Yes, you always have to balance the way you present yourself (in reference to the gurus and plumbers and diamond salesmen). I wouldn’t want a lawyer driving a ‘76 Toyota with a broken window. Of course, if he’s wearing Armani and lots of jewelry and riding in a chauffered Rolls I might think I’m overpaying him.
I don’t expect the gurus to have the bling sites - leave that to those not so busy with jet-setting and conference-speaking - but they are driving ‘76 Corollas right now. There’s no excuse for not hiring someone who can build a website when you have that much prominence in the IT world.
42 •
on June 4, 2004 @ 10:47 AM
Regarding Sahlen, it’s all good clean fun. Had I known Micek was the same age, I probably would have flipped a coin on who to use. Zeldman had to go down… otherwise there would be no Gurus v. Bloggers 2. Like the Scream movies, there’s a formula here that simply cannot be broken. 8^)
However, the point is simply this, and I think Zeldman would agree: I get inspired when I see work by Sahlen and Micek, especially knowing their age. It’s great to see folks using web standards in their work, while also having that eye for design and content at such a young age.
43 •
on June 4, 2004 @ 12:02 PM
Hey couldn’t you include beside the comments a mini profile where you just state:
web address
web site owner’r name
web site topic
Locating those basic information in the comments is a pain. OF COURSE that the comments are interesting! But it just comes a moment when one wonders: how can I know what this site is actually about, and whose website is that image: of the contender mentioned on the left or on the right? Are we sure they imply symmetry between text and images?
All the rest is great and enjoyable to say the least, otherwise I would have not checked all those websites and I would have not bored dropping a note! Great job! Just a small summary would improve the readers’ experience.
For the rest, as I said, it’s immensely enjoyable.
ciao
Alberto
44 •
on June 4, 2004 @ 12:06 PM
“He’s even got me thinking green is the new orange.”
ROTFL
45 •
on June 5, 2004 @ 01:17 AM
Hi,
I was brought your blog through zeldman.com. I really enjoy reading your blog. And somehow I feel the urge to post here ^____^
Regards,
e-null
46 •
on June 5, 2004 @ 07:54 AM
I do think it’s cheating that luke wroblewski and bob baxley both have books where they pontificate, yet are bloggers. Is the definition of blogger “one that can design”? If so, the contest is never going to fly right.
47 •
on June 5, 2004 @ 08:22 AM
Hmm, I’m starting to get the feeling that these fights are staged. ;-)
48 •
on June 5, 2004 @ 09:56 AM
Is the definition of blogger “one that can design?”
It’s not nearly that easy. The definition of a blogger is anyone I want to use to make a point that is also somehow related to the Guru I want to pit them up against. So what’s a Guru? Someone who has a either credibility, expertise, or noteriety in some aspect of design.
Beyond that, it’s just satire, so I wouldn’t ponder the question too hard. I might decide to change the rules again. Just because.
49 •
on June 5, 2004 @ 11:21 AM
I think that there’s really no need of a third round of Gurus v. Bloggers, the numbers speak themselves! ;-)
50 •
on June 5, 2004 @ 03:37 PM
A great series which gives us the great opportunity to see a large number of graphic incentive for our websites (or motivation to change them).
Other than that, I’m convinced it’s entirely a set up. In the sixteen rounds this great battle has endured, the gurus have never won. They even drafted the high and mighty to their side in an effort to win at least one round, and they’ve still failed at that. Are the bloggers the Lakers of the web? I’m already feeling the same angst I’ve felt during NBA finals time and time again. Gurus, I pity you.
51 •
on June 6, 2004 @ 12:41 AM
I think that Sahlén has given inspiration to all of us younger designers, soon-to-be designers, and whatnot.
I know that when I stumbled upon this entry, I said, “Geez, time to get my act in gear. PUT UP A WEBSITE. NOW.” ;D!
Just think — Gurus vs. Bloggers has spurned on the younger designers.
Inspiring a generation. ;D
(On that note, the Gurus and the bloggers might want to run — I think we might be catching up… )
52 •
on June 6, 2004 @ 07:40 PM
He’s even got me thinking green is the new orange.
It would be if I had my way.
53 •
on June 7, 2004 @ 08:30 AM
Wait! Bob Baxely is a published guru at this point … He has a book, and is a regular on Boxes & Arrows.
54 •
on June 7, 2004 @ 04:51 PM
Nice reading, and, why not, blogging rules :)
55 •
on June 7, 2004 @ 05:23 PM
Round-3…
How bout professional journalist (they all think they are gurus) against the bloggers. Just a thought.
:-)
56 •
on June 7, 2004 @ 05:27 PM
I think that there’s really no need of a third round of Gurus v. Bloggers, the numbers speak themselves! ;-)
Are you kidding!? Of course there’s a need for a third round of GvB! What about eris, cameron, cederholm, bowman…
57 •
on June 7, 2004 @ 11:44 PM
While I admire and respect CSS Zen Garden, I don’t exactly see how it can be categorized as a blog. Or how it can be compared to Eric’s relatively static, yet much more informative site.
58 •
on June 16, 2004 @ 04:23 AM
A great, fun read. I just wanted to comment on one thing though: Anne van Kesteren is even younger than Sahlen (bah, title attributes get stripped? Very well, I’ll use parentheses: "…, born the first of August ‘86"), and already incredibly knowledged in Standards, protocols and all the related issues. He may not be as impressive as a designer, but I am most certainly very impressed by the extent of his knowledge on all the topics that blogs like DxF (and Meyerweb, Mezzoblue, et cetera) cover.
Maybe someone to keep in mind for the next Gurus vs Bloggers? ;)
59 •
on June 20, 2004 @ 02:20 AM
Wow, this is… unexpected, to say the least. I didn’t come here to read this article until now (I kind of missed it when it was posted), wondering what all the refers from here were about. Thanks!
60 •
on June 22, 2004 @ 08:38 AM
Mind Blowing.
It was 1971-72. I got personal letter from Intel founder, offering me a 4004 development kit for $500. ( I’m in India, but in touch with the world even today.). A small world had its advantages, few Gurus, fewer breakthrough (ideas)/ minute.
First, things first. What is design? I found every one who thinks, claims a (new) design, wants a patent and today wants to write code. Can we agree to an acceptable definition?
Second most important thing - 5W Important : code for What is important, for whom, why, when and where? is important
Dyanamics of importance : Ethics, Iraq, Universe, mind , body, soul? 5W Hierarchy: code for What, when where, why, for Whom, when Hierarchy defines the dynamics of importance.
This paradigm can create the logic of philosophy of definitions, Expanding the permutations and combinations will result in logic of the future, an evolutionary GURU.
I stop now.
Your site ” design by fire: Gurus is a Wow, in short a starting point for mind to start an adventure of the mind
Thanks for the experience.
Ajit Lal
61 •
on June 22, 2004 @ 03:04 PM
Are you equating living in Chicago with being a poser, Mr. Herasimchuk? Because I live in Chicago, and I…
oh.
You may be on to something.
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