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Showing posts with label CAT. Show all posts
Showing posts with label CAT. Show all posts
Wednesday, May 27, 2009
Sunday, April 19, 2009
If you want something badly enough...
You get it!
And here's a feel-good story for a Sunday evening that tells you how you can make it happen. This example is of a guy - let's call him G - who cracked the CAT exam but it could apply to anything in life.
I am sharing the letter he wrote to me, after being accepted at four IIMs ( reproduced as is, punctuated by my comments in italics).
Dear Rashmi,
I hope you remember me. I was one of the 9 or 10 CAT aspirants who took part in the survey you conducted on your blog, sometime last year.
I scored 99.86 percentile in CAT 2008. I got GDPI calls from IIM Calcutta, Lucknow, Indore and Kozhikode, and managed to convert all four of them. I'll obviously be going to IIM Calcutta.
Yes, I was a victim of IIM A's policy of looking at the 10th and 12th standard scores: I had a comparatively lower score in my tenth standard. (IIMA's loss, I am sure! :)
This is the time when I pause and look back at my CAT preparation. And one thing that instantly flashes to my mind is your Kung-fu Panda post written sometime last year.
"Lesson # 1: If you want something badly enough, you get it somehow."
Believe me, I wanted it badly enough. I shifted to a lower paying job in an IT firm, from a high-paying "core" firm, so that I'd get time to study for CAT. I was assigned to a project, and the timelines were tight- we had to work on weekends also.
Initially I whined a bit because I had shifted here to study in peace, but later I managed to 'beat' the system. On Saturdays, I juggled with CAT classes(4 hours) and office work(8 hours). I was determined not to come to office on Sundays(others in my team did come) by working harder on Saturdays. On Sundays I took two mock-CATs: one from IMS and the other from TIME.
(Many others would have given up - but you found a way to juggle both work and study. I do think this is a better strategy than quitting your job and only focussing on preparation - a question I am commonly asked!)
I did not score high consistently in the mock-CATs. Yet, I had a vague inner feeling that I'll hit a sixer on the last ball, and do extremely well in CAT. I just meditated on the last day before CAT, and repeated 15-15-25 in my mind. The numbers referred to the number of questions I would solve in Quant, DI and Verbal sections respectively. It ended up being 13-12-40.
(Meditation is a *must* no matter who you are and what you do. We brush our teeth everyday, but what about all the cobwebs in our minds?)
Frankly I find it very tough to determine causality, i.e. I did 'X' and scored well in CAT. All I can say is that if you are not convinced that an IIM is the only place for you, then it is impossible to succeed in CAT. One more thing: many people take CAT to escape from their IT jobs.
I quote from that post of yours:
"Clearing these super tough exams is like running a lawnmower through your own mental garden. It crushes the weeds of self doubt and self pity which we've allowed to grow. Exam or no exam, you can choose to yank out those weeds. Then look the guys who think they know better in the eye and declare,"My soup is as kick-ass as yours."
I couldn't agree more with you on this. The whole process of cracking CAT, clearing the interviews has changed me a lot. It is not that I have become cocky, or that I have acquired a "Bring 'em on" attitude after getting an admission into IIM-C. It is simply that I don't care about anything else.
I have become less self-conscious about my appearance. I am less anxious about what others will say. I know I can stretch myself to do bigger things after cracking CAT- after all if I could manage a tough office schedule and crack CAT(and eventually the interviews), I can face most (if not all) of the challenges that come in front of me.
And now I realize that those were the weeds of self-doubt and self-pity which CAT yanked out. The whole experience gave me confidence, yet it was humbling too.
(True confidence is really about humility. You know you are capable of anything, and that 'others' do not matter. You are really only competing with yourself... But, no matter how much you 'achieve' you accept that there will always more to seek, to experience, and understand.)
Well, that's all I have to say. Let me take this opportunity to thank you for the wonderful blog that you write. It has inspired me on more than one occasion. Believe me, I view self-help stuff with suspicion, contempt and even derision, but your words work for me.
Cheers,
G
Thank you, G, for sharing your experience. Wish you all the very best in the journey of life. May the panda in you continue to kung fu, even in that suit and tie.
More 'kung fu panda' experiences shared by readers here.
And here's a feel-good story for a Sunday evening that tells you how you can make it happen. This example is of a guy - let's call him G - who cracked the CAT exam but it could apply to anything in life.
I am sharing the letter he wrote to me, after being accepted at four IIMs ( reproduced as is, punctuated by my comments in italics).
Dear Rashmi,
I hope you remember me. I was one of the 9 or 10 CAT aspirants who took part in the survey you conducted on your blog, sometime last year.
I scored 99.86 percentile in CAT 2008. I got GDPI calls from IIM Calcutta, Lucknow, Indore and Kozhikode, and managed to convert all four of them. I'll obviously be going to IIM Calcutta.
Yes, I was a victim of IIM A's policy of looking at the 10th and 12th standard scores: I had a comparatively lower score in my tenth standard. (IIMA's loss, I am sure! :)
This is the time when I pause and look back at my CAT preparation. And one thing that instantly flashes to my mind is your Kung-fu Panda post written sometime last year.
"Lesson # 1: If you want something badly enough, you get it somehow."
Believe me, I wanted it badly enough. I shifted to a lower paying job in an IT firm, from a high-paying "core" firm, so that I'd get time to study for CAT. I was assigned to a project, and the timelines were tight- we had to work on weekends also.
Initially I whined a bit because I had shifted here to study in peace, but later I managed to 'beat' the system. On Saturdays, I juggled with CAT classes(4 hours) and office work(8 hours). I was determined not to come to office on Sundays(others in my team did come) by working harder on Saturdays. On Sundays I took two mock-CATs: one from IMS and the other from TIME.
(Many others would have given up - but you found a way to juggle both work and study. I do think this is a better strategy than quitting your job and only focussing on preparation - a question I am commonly asked!)
I did not score high consistently in the mock-CATs. Yet, I had a vague inner feeling that I'll hit a sixer on the last ball, and do extremely well in CAT. I just meditated on the last day before CAT, and repeated 15-15-25 in my mind. The numbers referred to the number of questions I would solve in Quant, DI and Verbal sections respectively. It ended up being 13-12-40.
(Meditation is a *must* no matter who you are and what you do. We brush our teeth everyday, but what about all the cobwebs in our minds?)
Frankly I find it very tough to determine causality, i.e. I did 'X' and scored well in CAT. All I can say is that if you are not convinced that an IIM is the only place for you, then it is impossible to succeed in CAT. One more thing: many people take CAT to escape from their IT jobs.
I quote from that post of yours:
"Clearing these super tough exams is like running a lawnmower through your own mental garden. It crushes the weeds of self doubt and self pity which we've allowed to grow. Exam or no exam, you can choose to yank out those weeds. Then look the guys who think they know better in the eye and declare,"My soup is as kick-ass as yours."
I couldn't agree more with you on this. The whole process of cracking CAT, clearing the interviews has changed me a lot. It is not that I have become cocky, or that I have acquired a "Bring 'em on" attitude after getting an admission into IIM-C. It is simply that I don't care about anything else.
I have become less self-conscious about my appearance. I am less anxious about what others will say. I know I can stretch myself to do bigger things after cracking CAT- after all if I could manage a tough office schedule and crack CAT(and eventually the interviews), I can face most (if not all) of the challenges that come in front of me.
And now I realize that those were the weeds of self-doubt and self-pity which CAT yanked out. The whole experience gave me confidence, yet it was humbling too.
(True confidence is really about humility. You know you are capable of anything, and that 'others' do not matter. You are really only competing with yourself... But, no matter how much you 'achieve' you accept that there will always more to seek, to experience, and understand.)
Well, that's all I have to say. Let me take this opportunity to thank you for the wonderful blog that you write. It has inspired me on more than one occasion. Believe me, I view self-help stuff with suspicion, contempt and even derision, but your words work for me.
Cheers,
G
Thank you, G, for sharing your experience. Wish you all the very best in the journey of life. May the panda in you continue to kung fu, even in that suit and tie.
More 'kung fu panda' experiences shared by readers here.
Thursday, January 15, 2009
Past perfect II: the other side of the story
My previous post brought out a great deal of angst. But here's the thing:
CAT + past performance may not be the best way to identify future business leaders. But it is the most OBJECTIVE method available.
Now we can debate the amount of weightage that should be given to various parameters (this year weightage given by IIMA to class 10 & 12 marks in the tie-breaker seem excessive to me). We can also ask for normalisation across boards.
But can we really ask for a more subjective process, a la Stanford and Wharton? In the Indian context that may not work.
One of the foundations of the IIM brand is that the intake is purely on merit. There is no room for influence, money, or any other means of 'getting a seat'. Whether you are the Prime Minister's nephew or the director's son, the IIMs are above bhai -bhatijawaad.
The moment you include more subjective criteria, there are questions. Now you may say ISB also follows a subjective process but then it is not a government institute. Rejected candidates do not go and file RTI.
In an interview to Mint's Sidin Vadukut, last year IIM A director Samir Barua stated that the fall in diversity of the batch (the 94% engineers) was a direct consequence of 'things like the RTI act'. To quote from the article:
... because of RTI and extreme pressure on the IIMs and IITs (Indian Institutes of Technology) to explain admission procedures, the institute could no longer be “fuzzy” in the selection process. “Previously, we ensured some sort of diversity by picking up a mix of people from those who cleared the written test. We could introduce a level of subjectivity at the interview stage. But now, because of RTI, applicants who don’t make it demand to know why they weren’t selected when they scored better than another admitted student in the written test.”
But this seems to bother me more than it does Barua. “I think engineers are just as creative as arts or commerce graduates. What irks me is that I lose the ability to pick up someone even if they scored a little less on the test but impress in the discussions and interviews,” he adds.
Of course, I still think it is upto the institute's prerogative to figure out a means to have more diversity (eg lay out a lower cut-off for students from non-engineering streams if they feel it is important to get the right mix in the class!). I think IIM Bangalore has managed this process best amongst all IIMs.
But it is upto the students to accept that either way there will be some 'arbitrariness' in selection.
For all those who hold up the high standards of Ivy League schools, I recommend a book called The Price of Admissions: How America's Ruling Class Buys Its Way into Elite Colleges -- and Who Gets Left Outside the Gates by Daniel Goldman.
The book mainly looks at undergraduate admissions, not bschools, but it outlines how subjective an admissions process can become!
Ideally we should have objective criteria, with some room for subjectivity. Which is what we did have, until the IIMs became more transparent.
In my time, if you didn't get in, you accepted that as your destiny and moved on. Now, people take the CAT again and again, and some will use instruments like RTI to know 'why'.
Incidentally, IIMs do use the 'international' method to select candidates for the 1 year PGP X program. But there, applicants are in hundreds, not lakhs!
Given the 246,000 test-takers in the fray for the PGP program, and how important this test has become to them, methinks we'll be fighting CAT and dog over weightages and percentiles for some years to come!
CAT + past performance may not be the best way to identify future business leaders. But it is the most OBJECTIVE method available.
Now we can debate the amount of weightage that should be given to various parameters (this year weightage given by IIMA to class 10 & 12 marks in the tie-breaker seem excessive to me). We can also ask for normalisation across boards.
But can we really ask for a more subjective process, a la Stanford and Wharton? In the Indian context that may not work.
One of the foundations of the IIM brand is that the intake is purely on merit. There is no room for influence, money, or any other means of 'getting a seat'. Whether you are the Prime Minister's nephew or the director's son, the IIMs are above bhai -bhatijawaad.
The moment you include more subjective criteria, there are questions. Now you may say ISB also follows a subjective process but then it is not a government institute. Rejected candidates do not go and file RTI.
In an interview to Mint's Sidin Vadukut, last year IIM A director Samir Barua stated that the fall in diversity of the batch (the 94% engineers) was a direct consequence of 'things like the RTI act'. To quote from the article:
... because of RTI and extreme pressure on the IIMs and IITs (Indian Institutes of Technology) to explain admission procedures, the institute could no longer be “fuzzy” in the selection process. “Previously, we ensured some sort of diversity by picking up a mix of people from those who cleared the written test. We could introduce a level of subjectivity at the interview stage. But now, because of RTI, applicants who don’t make it demand to know why they weren’t selected when they scored better than another admitted student in the written test.”
But this seems to bother me more than it does Barua. “I think engineers are just as creative as arts or commerce graduates. What irks me is that I lose the ability to pick up someone even if they scored a little less on the test but impress in the discussions and interviews,” he adds.
Of course, I still think it is upto the institute's prerogative to figure out a means to have more diversity (eg lay out a lower cut-off for students from non-engineering streams if they feel it is important to get the right mix in the class!). I think IIM Bangalore has managed this process best amongst all IIMs.
But it is upto the students to accept that either way there will be some 'arbitrariness' in selection.
For all those who hold up the high standards of Ivy League schools, I recommend a book called The Price of Admissions: How America's Ruling Class Buys Its Way into Elite Colleges -- and Who Gets Left Outside the Gates by Daniel Goldman.
The book mainly looks at undergraduate admissions, not bschools, but it outlines how subjective an admissions process can become!
Ideally we should have objective criteria, with some room for subjectivity. Which is what we did have, until the IIMs became more transparent.
In my time, if you didn't get in, you accepted that as your destiny and moved on. Now, people take the CAT again and again, and some will use instruments like RTI to know 'why'.
Incidentally, IIMs do use the 'international' method to select candidates for the 1 year PGP X program. But there, applicants are in hundreds, not lakhs!
Given the 246,000 test-takers in the fray for the PGP program, and how important this test has become to them, methinks we'll be fighting CAT and dog over weightages and percentiles for some years to come!
Monday, January 12, 2009
Past perfect?
Do people peak in performance at class 10 and 12?
Should poor performance in these exams haunt you for the rest of your life?
The IIMs certainly seem to think so. And particularly, IIM Ahmedabad. The institute recently released a document which laid out the selection process it is using for the 2009-11 intake.
In the general category, you would need to score at least 98 percentile overall and 94, 94 and 94.5 in sections 1, 2 and 3 respectively.
Now 1160 candidates from the 2.46 who appeared for the CAT this year qualified under this criteria. That number was further whittled down to 609 based on your past academic performance - in class 10 and 12.
The bottomline is that the institute needs to use some kind of tie breaker and it has opted for class 10 & 12 marks.
Unlike IIM Bangalore or IIM Lucknow, IIM A does not consider work experience, graduation marks or any other factor at the tie-breaker stage. I guess that is IIM A's prerogative - they basically want all the 'toppers'.
But there are two issues with this profiling
One is a technical one. Ankit Doshi is a BCom graduate from Mumbai with 3 interview calls, but he missed out on A. He believes it is because marks across different boards were not 'normalised'.
Giving his own example, Ankit states that he cleared the pre-screening criteria but probably lost out on the Academic Performance score as he scored 85.86% in class 10 (SSC) and 85.13% in class 12 (HSC). According to which his AP = 12
But in the ICSE or CBSE board (or even a state board like Andhra) scoring above 90% is common and those students would have an unfair advantage and score an AP of 16.
I think this is a very valid point and the institute should take this into account!
Ankit adds, "If you study the marking and scoring patterns of students, such a criteria completely closes the doors on students of Arts and Humanities across India . How many Arts std XIIth toppers even cross 85%?"
Well, that is a whole separate Pandora's box. At the 15th year reunion of IIMA's class of '93 held two weeks ago, we had a raging debate with some of the faculty on the changed student profile. From a 70: 30 ratio (70 being engineers and 30 being 'other streams'), we now have 93% engineers in the batch.
The faculty says it's because most smart kids in India gravitate towards engineering and hence more engineers crack the CAT. But factors like 'AP' make it that much more difficult for even the smartest of arts and commerce grads out there to get that interview call.
The second - and more fundamental - issue is should the past be given so much importance at all? Is it really an indicator of 'success' in the future?
One way to look at it is that if I am successful at an early age, I get a lot of positive strokes for it and therefore remain motivated to continue succeeding in the future.
But the other side of it is that now that I have the label of being 'successful', I no longer really need to peform. To do something more, or better. Because I am already 'there'.
Psychologist Carol Dweck has written a book on this subject called 'Mindset: the new psychology of success'. Which inspired Guy Kawasaki to make this post explaining why most 'hot' companies eventually drift into mediocrity.
Let’s say a startup is hot. It ships something great, and it achieves success. Thus, it’s able to attract the best, brightest, and most talented. These people have been told they’re the best since childhood. Indeed, being hired by the hot company is “proof” that they are the A and A+ players; in fact, the company is so hot that it can out-recruit Google and Microsoft.
Unfortunately, they develop a fixed mindset that they’re the most talented, and they think that continued success is a right. Problems arise because pure talent only works as long as the going is easy. Furthermore, they don’t take risks because failure would harm their image of being the best, brightest, and most talented. When they do fail, they deny it or attribute it to anything but their shortcomings.
I think those two paras precisely explain why we've seen that enormous mess on Wall Street! The sub prime mess is the ghastly creation of bschool bred minds who firmly believed they could do no wrong. And even if they did, the safety net of being part of an elite club would save them.
Carol postulates that people have two kinds of mindsets: growth or fixed. People with the growth mindset view life as a series of challenges and opportunities for improving. People with a fixed mindset believe that they are “set” as either good or bad.
The issue is that the good ones believe they don’t have to work hard, and the bad ones believe that working hard won’t change anything.
As far as I can see the past performance, topper-centric intake of our most wanted bschools is only reinforcing the fixed mindset. A mindset which is certainly not suited for an increasingly unpredictable world.
Should poor performance in these exams haunt you for the rest of your life?
The IIMs certainly seem to think so. And particularly, IIM Ahmedabad. The institute recently released a document which laid out the selection process it is using for the 2009-11 intake.
In the general category, you would need to score at least 98 percentile overall and 94, 94 and 94.5 in sections 1, 2 and 3 respectively.
Now 1160 candidates from the 2.46 who appeared for the CAT this year qualified under this criteria. That number was further whittled down to 609 based on your past academic performance - in class 10 and 12.
The bottomline is that the institute needs to use some kind of tie breaker and it has opted for class 10 & 12 marks.
Unlike IIM Bangalore or IIM Lucknow, IIM A does not consider work experience, graduation marks or any other factor at the tie-breaker stage. I guess that is IIM A's prerogative - they basically want all the 'toppers'.
But there are two issues with this profiling
One is a technical one. Ankit Doshi is a BCom graduate from Mumbai with 3 interview calls, but he missed out on A. He believes it is because marks across different boards were not 'normalised'.
Giving his own example, Ankit states that he cleared the pre-screening criteria but probably lost out on the Academic Performance score as he scored 85.86% in class 10 (SSC) and 85.13% in class 12 (HSC). According to which his AP = 12
But in the ICSE or CBSE board (or even a state board like Andhra) scoring above 90% is common and those students would have an unfair advantage and score an AP of 16.
I think this is a very valid point and the institute should take this into account!
Ankit adds, "If you study the marking and scoring patterns of students, such a criteria completely closes the doors on students of Arts and Humanities across India . How many Arts std XIIth toppers even cross 85%?"
Well, that is a whole separate Pandora's box. At the 15th year reunion of IIMA's class of '93 held two weeks ago, we had a raging debate with some of the faculty on the changed student profile. From a 70: 30 ratio (70 being engineers and 30 being 'other streams'), we now have 93% engineers in the batch.
The faculty says it's because most smart kids in India gravitate towards engineering and hence more engineers crack the CAT. But factors like 'AP' make it that much more difficult for even the smartest of arts and commerce grads out there to get that interview call.
The second - and more fundamental - issue is should the past be given so much importance at all? Is it really an indicator of 'success' in the future?
One way to look at it is that if I am successful at an early age, I get a lot of positive strokes for it and therefore remain motivated to continue succeeding in the future.
But the other side of it is that now that I have the label of being 'successful', I no longer really need to peform. To do something more, or better. Because I am already 'there'.
Psychologist Carol Dweck has written a book on this subject called 'Mindset: the new psychology of success'. Which inspired Guy Kawasaki to make this post explaining why most 'hot' companies eventually drift into mediocrity.
Let’s say a startup is hot. It ships something great, and it achieves success. Thus, it’s able to attract the best, brightest, and most talented. These people have been told they’re the best since childhood. Indeed, being hired by the hot company is “proof” that they are the A and A+ players; in fact, the company is so hot that it can out-recruit Google and Microsoft.
Unfortunately, they develop a fixed mindset that they’re the most talented, and they think that continued success is a right. Problems arise because pure talent only works as long as the going is easy. Furthermore, they don’t take risks because failure would harm their image of being the best, brightest, and most talented. When they do fail, they deny it or attribute it to anything but their shortcomings.
I think those two paras precisely explain why we've seen that enormous mess on Wall Street! The sub prime mess is the ghastly creation of bschool bred minds who firmly believed they could do no wrong. And even if they did, the safety net of being part of an elite club would save them.
Carol postulates that people have two kinds of mindsets: growth or fixed. People with the growth mindset view life as a series of challenges and opportunities for improving. People with a fixed mindset believe that they are “set” as either good or bad.
The issue is that the good ones believe they don’t have to work hard, and the bad ones believe that working hard won’t change anything.
As far as I can see the past performance, topper-centric intake of our most wanted bschools is only reinforcing the fixed mindset. A mindset which is certainly not suited for an increasingly unpredictable world.
Monday, September 29, 2008
An American MBA outside the Ivy League
Naveen is a regular reader of this blog and here's his (somewhat belated) 2 cents on my post of 4th Sept 2008, 'Ivy league goes the IIM way - II'.
Just for background, I did my full-time, MBA from a US (Purdue) university in 2002, ranked generally 23/24 as per US News, after working in India for 3 years in software.
Somehow, many students/professionals in India are aware of only the Ivy Leagues and the associated high fees of doing MBA from US (Ivy/non-Ivy) or Europe b-schools. This acts as a deterrent to them and they give up on their dream of doing an MBA from
abroad.
Based on my experience, I can say, that US schools ranked from 20-30 are also pretty good and they have a very exhaustive program. Many State schools like Purdue, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State, Maryland fall in these categories and they all are very good schools (not only in MBA but also have strong Engineering schools) plus the added advantage of lower fees and high probability of getting assistantships (like teaching to undergrads) that reduces the fees a lot plus offers monthly stipend. (could end up being cheaper than studying at ISB or IIMs).
All these schools have very high-class facilities and offer an amazing MBA experience of good coursework & projects, case competitions (even funding going to other US schools case completion, if you qualify), doing projects/cases with other departments and collaborating with them, to develop business case for their technical products, ample networking and discussions etc.
The MBA program at Purdue offers a very diverse class (~40% internationals) and is very strong in Operations and Corporate Finance. One big advantage in these schools is the relative smaller class size (~150 per batch) as compared to 400-600 students at the Ivy Leagues and other top 20 schools. So, a smaller class size offers more opportunity to grow and reduces chances of being lost!!!
We had approx 10 people from India (from varied backgrounds of Engg, Commerce etc.) and almost all, had an assistantship from 1st semester, that reduced everybody’s tension of funding for fees and other living expenses and also the risk of ‘what-if I do not get a job in the US’!!! Most of them had arranged for bank loans from India to cover 2 yrs (and got them easily) but after getting an assistantship within few days of landing @ Purdue, they did not need the Indian loan money.
As for jobs after MBA, most of the Indian batch got jobs by graduation. It was a struggle for a couple of Indian guys due to the tough job market at that time and because they were trying to change their stream (like moving from Marketing pre-MBA experience to Finance and similar).
The visa issue also becomes a headache for some students (Indian, Chinese, Koreans, South Americans etc.) as many companies, would not do sponsorship for MBAs (even though they would sponsor for Engg students from same school). So, pre-MBA work experience plays a major role in post MBA job experience and I would suggest that people get minimum 2-3 years of work experience, before going for a US MBA, due to the job factor plus (my opinion) you tend to learn more, once you have had a solid job experience.
The negative side of doing MBA from 20-30 ranked schools is that your chances (if you want to) of getting into Investment Banking (especially) or Consulting would be reduced, as the big names IB firms (whichever are left now!!) don’t come to these schools and Consulting firms 1st priority is the top 15 schools (from where they pick a lot of students).
Another reason is location of some of these schools, as they are in Mid-West, which is not the hub of IB (New York) or Technology firms (Silicon Valley), but that in no way implies people do not get jobs in East or West coast. It's just that, general tendency of companies is go to schools where they are based out of, or of students, is that they want to find a job in the region, where they studied.
In case of Purdue (which is 2 hrs from Chicago), people from my batch of 150 got jobs all over the US but mainly in Mid-West, and in all sectors (mainly corporate finance, operations or marketing), with very few in IB or consulting. So, prospective students should keep in find their career stream, in choosing the school (stronger the school in that stream, more companies to recruit for that stream) or region of school.
All, I can say, is my MBA from Purdue, was one of the best experience for me and gave me lot of exposure to people from different cultures and a very good educational experience (plus also a good job :)
Thanks, Naveen!
In other MBA related news, the IIMs sold 2.9 lakh CAT forms this year, which is a new record. Wonder if the numbers would have been so high if the markets and I-banks had collapsed a couple of months earlier!
Just for background, I did my full-time, MBA from a US (Purdue) university in 2002, ranked generally 23/24 as per US News, after working in India for 3 years in software.
Somehow, many students/professionals in India are aware of only the Ivy Leagues and the associated high fees of doing MBA from US (Ivy/non-Ivy) or Europe b-schools. This acts as a deterrent to them and they give up on their dream of doing an MBA from
abroad.
Based on my experience, I can say, that US schools ranked from 20-30 are also pretty good and they have a very exhaustive program. Many State schools like Purdue, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State, Maryland fall in these categories and they all are very good schools (not only in MBA but also have strong Engineering schools) plus the added advantage of lower fees and high probability of getting assistantships (like teaching to undergrads) that reduces the fees a lot plus offers monthly stipend. (could end up being cheaper than studying at ISB or IIMs).
All these schools have very high-class facilities and offer an amazing MBA experience of good coursework & projects, case competitions (even funding going to other US schools case completion, if you qualify), doing projects/cases with other departments and collaborating with them, to develop business case for their technical products, ample networking and discussions etc.
The MBA program at Purdue offers a very diverse class (~40% internationals) and is very strong in Operations and Corporate Finance. One big advantage in these schools is the relative smaller class size (~150 per batch) as compared to 400-600 students at the Ivy Leagues and other top 20 schools. So, a smaller class size offers more opportunity to grow and reduces chances of being lost!!!
We had approx 10 people from India (from varied backgrounds of Engg, Commerce etc.) and almost all, had an assistantship from 1st semester, that reduced everybody’s tension of funding for fees and other living expenses and also the risk of ‘what-if I do not get a job in the US’!!! Most of them had arranged for bank loans from India to cover 2 yrs (and got them easily) but after getting an assistantship within few days of landing @ Purdue, they did not need the Indian loan money.
As for jobs after MBA, most of the Indian batch got jobs by graduation. It was a struggle for a couple of Indian guys due to the tough job market at that time and because they were trying to change their stream (like moving from Marketing pre-MBA experience to Finance and similar).
The visa issue also becomes a headache for some students (Indian, Chinese, Koreans, South Americans etc.) as many companies, would not do sponsorship for MBAs (even though they would sponsor for Engg students from same school). So, pre-MBA work experience plays a major role in post MBA job experience and I would suggest that people get minimum 2-3 years of work experience, before going for a US MBA, due to the job factor plus (my opinion) you tend to learn more, once you have had a solid job experience.
The negative side of doing MBA from 20-30 ranked schools is that your chances (if you want to) of getting into Investment Banking (especially) or Consulting would be reduced, as the big names IB firms (whichever are left now!!) don’t come to these schools and Consulting firms 1st priority is the top 15 schools (from where they pick a lot of students).
Another reason is location of some of these schools, as they are in Mid-West, which is not the hub of IB (New York) or Technology firms (Silicon Valley), but that in no way implies people do not get jobs in East or West coast. It's just that, general tendency of companies is go to schools where they are based out of, or of students, is that they want to find a job in the region, where they studied.
In case of Purdue (which is 2 hrs from Chicago), people from my batch of 150 got jobs all over the US but mainly in Mid-West, and in all sectors (mainly corporate finance, operations or marketing), with very few in IB or consulting. So, prospective students should keep in find their career stream, in choosing the school (stronger the school in that stream, more companies to recruit for that stream) or region of school.
All, I can say, is my MBA from Purdue, was one of the best experience for me and gave me lot of exposure to people from different cultures and a very good educational experience (plus also a good job :)
Thanks, Naveen!
In other MBA related news, the IIMs sold 2.9 lakh CAT forms this year, which is a new record. Wonder if the numbers would have been so high if the markets and I-banks had collapsed a couple of months earlier!
Thursday, September 04, 2008
Ivy league goes the IIM way - II
So Indian students with the right credentials and less or even no work experience have a decent chance of getting into a good US bschool. But as Suze Orman would say, "Can you afford it?" It can be tougher than you think. A recent grad shares his experience:
I graduated from a top-20 school (which isn't an Ivy League by the way, but then when we were talking Stanfords and GSBs, I guess a non-ivy isn't necessarily a deal breaker). My decision to pursue an MBA wasn't economically motivated - I was doing pretty well back home, and just wanted to try something else, and I didn't know what that something else was supposed to me.
Coming to America wasn't as regrettable as going in for an MBA was. The two years were real tough. The school didn't guarantee loans, and I mismanaged my funds. One of my loans didn't come through and I was stranded mid-way, having spent nearly 40,000 dollars at the end of the first year and with no money for the second year. I had to negotiate with school to allow me to continue, which they did but there were times when I had to choose between being able to pay my bills or buying groceries.
(And now that I started earning again, that strain is eased but the school has held my diploma till I pay of my dues - and that means no India trip for me for a long time).
I was the only one in my class who had never worked outside of India (and never earned foreign moolah) - so there weren't too many people who could relate to the situation. But even though I might be a one-off case, MBA is pretty expensive whatever way you look at it (an MBA costs you one half of what it costs you to buy an average home in America), and even if you get a loan, it's important to keep in mind that we, termed aliens for tax purposes won't get credits for the tuitions or the interests that we pay (unlike the citizens).
Getting an MBA could be a positive NPV venture but the initial cash outflows could create a BIG void. The second disadvantage that we aliens have is the (non) availability of work visas (there is no guarantee you would get one even though you might have a good job and you are ineligible for a lot of positions because of your visa status).
Apart from the high expense, the experience has been awesome. There were people from more than 30 different countries, and the age difference varied. In a class of nearly 165, there were 7 who had near zero work experience. They were either undergrads at the same institute and had developed good rapport with the admission staff/faculty, or had dabbed in entrepreneurship (e.g. one had started a gaming company, the other used to sell designer clothes), or were pursuing joint degrees (one was a medical student and another a law student).
I wouldn't know how would they have fared had they pursued job opportunities. Only one of them actively looked for jobs (and even though he had multiple job offers, most offers were a rung or two lower than what they would have been had he had some experience under his belt). Almost all the interviews I had were based on my work experience pre-MBA and so I believe it matters a lot. But younger people do tend to get higher salaries (younger = less than average age) though I don't have stats to prove that. And Indians tend to be among the younger lot.
The older guys didn't really care much about salaries (quite a few of them knew they would have to settle down with lower than their pre-MBA salaries because they were switching careers).
In short, MBA in the US is akin to a two year reality show. The stakes are high - and if you don't have sufficient assets to back your loans, one mistake could put you in debt for life. Work experience helps (the kinds where you have managed people or dealt with bureaucracy or been caught up fixing processes). And if you come straight from India, there is a lot of potential to learn and have fun at the same time.
"Whatever the reasons, the bottomline is, if you have a high GMAT score, great academics and something in your CV which stands out in terms of leadership skills or entrepreneurial experience, you should take a shot at top US bschools. Even as you take the CAT, XAT and all that."..Completely agree. Just one thing to add. Make an informed decision whatever school you choose to go to.
If you'd like to share your experience or advice on doing an MBA abroad, write to me at rashmi_b at yagoo.com.
I graduated from a top-20 school (which isn't an Ivy League by the way, but then when we were talking Stanfords and GSBs, I guess a non-ivy isn't necessarily a deal breaker). My decision to pursue an MBA wasn't economically motivated - I was doing pretty well back home, and just wanted to try something else, and I didn't know what that something else was supposed to me.
Coming to America wasn't as regrettable as going in for an MBA was. The two years were real tough. The school didn't guarantee loans, and I mismanaged my funds. One of my loans didn't come through and I was stranded mid-way, having spent nearly 40,000 dollars at the end of the first year and with no money for the second year. I had to negotiate with school to allow me to continue, which they did but there were times when I had to choose between being able to pay my bills or buying groceries.
(And now that I started earning again, that strain is eased but the school has held my diploma till I pay of my dues - and that means no India trip for me for a long time).
I was the only one in my class who had never worked outside of India (and never earned foreign moolah) - so there weren't too many people who could relate to the situation. But even though I might be a one-off case, MBA is pretty expensive whatever way you look at it (an MBA costs you one half of what it costs you to buy an average home in America), and even if you get a loan, it's important to keep in mind that we, termed aliens for tax purposes won't get credits for the tuitions or the interests that we pay (unlike the citizens).
Getting an MBA could be a positive NPV venture but the initial cash outflows could create a BIG void. The second disadvantage that we aliens have is the (non) availability of work visas (there is no guarantee you would get one even though you might have a good job and you are ineligible for a lot of positions because of your visa status).
Apart from the high expense, the experience has been awesome. There were people from more than 30 different countries, and the age difference varied. In a class of nearly 165, there were 7 who had near zero work experience. They were either undergrads at the same institute and had developed good rapport with the admission staff/faculty, or had dabbed in entrepreneurship (e.g. one had started a gaming company, the other used to sell designer clothes), or were pursuing joint degrees (one was a medical student and another a law student).
I wouldn't know how would they have fared had they pursued job opportunities. Only one of them actively looked for jobs (and even though he had multiple job offers, most offers were a rung or two lower than what they would have been had he had some experience under his belt). Almost all the interviews I had were based on my work experience pre-MBA and so I believe it matters a lot. But younger people do tend to get higher salaries (younger = less than average age) though I don't have stats to prove that. And Indians tend to be among the younger lot.
The older guys didn't really care much about salaries (quite a few of them knew they would have to settle down with lower than their pre-MBA salaries because they were switching careers).
In short, MBA in the US is akin to a two year reality show. The stakes are high - and if you don't have sufficient assets to back your loans, one mistake could put you in debt for life. Work experience helps (the kinds where you have managed people or dealt with bureaucracy or been caught up fixing processes). And if you come straight from India, there is a lot of potential to learn and have fun at the same time.
"Whatever the reasons, the bottomline is, if you have a high GMAT score, great academics and something in your CV which stands out in terms of leadership skills or entrepreneurial experience, you should take a shot at top US bschools. Even as you take the CAT, XAT and all that."..Completely agree. Just one thing to add. Make an informed decision whatever school you choose to go to.
If you'd like to share your experience or advice on doing an MBA abroad, write to me at rashmi_b at yagoo.com.
Friday, August 15, 2008
Get a personal expert for CAT prep
If you're taking CAT this year and live either in Mumbai or Delhi, you're invited to participate in 'Countdown to CAT' on Cracking Careers (UTVi).
You will be profiled and then connected to an expert for a chat on your problem areas - whether in DI, Quanti or Verbal. Or any other prep related issues.
Drop me a line at rashmi_b at yahoo.com with your name, educational background, CAT history and any prep issues you have right now. Also your contact details.
Last week we had Maulik Chandarana, an engineering grad who's taken the year off for CAT and is struggling with Quanti. This week, we help Anupreet Dhody, a BMS graduate with 2 years work ex, tackle her weak section - Verbal.
You can catch the show at these times:
Saturday 16 Aug: 330 pm, 6 pm
Sunday 17 Aug: 12 noon, 5 pm
A few of you are uncomfortable about being in front of a camera. Let me assure you it ain't all that scary. You will just need to be yourself :)
P.S. Those of you who cracked the CAT and made it your dream schools last year, do also get in touch. We would like to interview you guys as well!
You will be profiled and then connected to an expert for a chat on your problem areas - whether in DI, Quanti or Verbal. Or any other prep related issues.
Drop me a line at rashmi_b at yahoo.com with your name, educational background, CAT history and any prep issues you have right now. Also your contact details.
Last week we had Maulik Chandarana, an engineering grad who's taken the year off for CAT and is struggling with Quanti. This week, we help Anupreet Dhody, a BMS graduate with 2 years work ex, tackle her weak section - Verbal.
You can catch the show at these times:
Saturday 16 Aug: 330 pm, 6 pm
Sunday 17 Aug: 12 noon, 5 pm
A few of you are uncomfortable about being in front of a camera. Let me assure you it ain't all that scary. You will just need to be yourself :)
P.S. Those of you who cracked the CAT and made it your dream schools last year, do also get in touch. We would like to interview you guys as well!
Sunday, August 03, 2008
The CAT Survey: Result
Thank you to all those of you who filled in my CAT questionnaire (just - because I asked you to!) The exercise was not 'scientific' but I am sharing with you the results, coz some of it has been an eyeopener!
8 out of 9 people who responded were male and engineering students/ graduates.
Don't know if this reflects the readership of my blog or the general skew in the CAT-taking population (esp the male bit). But weirdly enough, it reflects the approximate class profile at India's top business schools!
Of these 9 people all are currently working:
Two were taking CAT for the first time (both are final year students - but doing their internships and hence technically, 'working')
One for the second time
And six for the third time!
Wow. The reason, I deduce, is that all the engineers are in good jobs and hence aiming only for a top 10 school. So they would rather attempt the exam again and again than settle for the school they got the first time.
The question is, does one's performance improve by taking the exam multiple times?
Well, this came as a revelation to me - YES! One guy's performance has jumped as much as 18 percentile while the average jump from one year to the next appears to be 10 percentile.
As regards classes:
One person has taken absolutely no classes.
Of the rest, TIME appears to be most popular (5 of the respondents were from South India).
Second most mentioned classes were IMS.
Since most were CAT veterans test series/ AIMCATs/ SIMCATs were more popular than classroom coaching. 2 of the 9 had taken a TIME + IMS combo while one had take Time + a local classe (Byju's) for Mock CATs (in Pune).
Problem areas:
While some fit the mythical 'engineer' profile and are struggling with verbal ("I had problems with RCs and am looking to improve by reading books"), others are finding quant to be challenging.
Says one such banda, "English: 98-99 percentile, consistent; Quantis poor, DI is poor.". So, one cannot generalise :)
In fact DI seems to be an even bigger pain in the butt than quant. As one aspirant notes: "My quant is improving, but I am a slow starter. I go in this order: DI, Verbal, Quant. The Verbal section relaxes me. I am a bit rusty when I start. So I underperform in DI. Let's hope I start scoring in DI".
As far as study schedules go here is a typical response:
"On an average I manage around 2 hours everyday, 3 hours on a good day and 1-1.5 hours on a bad day. On Saturdays I manage around 2-3 hours excluding classes (4 hours)".
Only 1 out of 9 claims to put in 5.5 hrs a day. The average study period is about 2 hours. Surprisingly, half the people prefer to study in the morning, before leaving for work!
While all are somehow juggling work and prep, a few are making adjustments in their career to make it happen.
"I used to work in a startup earlier. I was there for 6 months just after graduation. But the work was gruelling, and since it was affecting my CAT prep, I left it to work at a Big Software Company (I was already placed here through campus placements)".
What is your strategy is going to be to improve over next 3 months?
Most plan to just 'read more' and take more Mock CATs. Here is a sample:
"Practice 2 RC and 2 DI sets daily. Honestly, just RCs will be good enough. The DI sets are thrown in just to do well in AIMCATs and increase the feel-good. I feel the real CAT will not have totally difficult DIs like TIME has. This is my idealistic strategy, which I may or may not follow, depending on mood. Weekly AIMCATs should do it for me".
Bschools they are aiming for:
The two freshers are interested 'only in IIMs'.
The repeater junta is a bit more pragmatic and includes a wider range of top bschools. Besides IIMs, they mentioned the following:
XLRI, FMS, MDI - 6
SP Jain - 4
IIFT - 2
SJSOM IITB - 3
NMIMS - 1
others - 1
Was a bit surprised to see S P Jain not in the XLRI/ FMS / MDI category in the minds of prospective MBAs. Average no of schools applied to seems to be 10 (some have counted all IIMs are 'one school' in which case that no is closer to 15!)
Which b-schools do you think you will get?
I asked this question, just. Maybe to see how confident people are... Three out of nine said they are expecting at least one IIM call. The rest had 'no idea' and one actually said 'none'.
He added,"My nondescript verbal communication and my excessive belief in my intelligence, coupled with lack of seriousness should stop me in the interviews. Last year I did not utter a word at the GDs, and later tried to justify this in the interviews".
Finally, a couple of the respondents shared the fact that they're confused. CAT karna bhi chahiye ya nahin?
The lone non-engineer says:
"I find the math section really hard to score on. Sometimes I think that may be I should do a course in Mass Media or Literature as I work in media. But then I'm told that MBA is more lucrative and also because my background is from a different faculty I am not eligible for the full time MA at Mumbai University.
Also I'm not sure how much weight a Mass Media degree really holds, in term of growth in my job. From I can see, it is mostly freshers who do the course at XIC or Sophias".
And one of the engineers is even more ruthless in his assessment:
"I pity those (including me), who have no idea why they are pursuing MBA. There's a vague incentive of money, but what will I do with the money if I have no time to use it?
And still we keep crowding the place, maybe because we are not smart/ brave enough to find anything better to do, or maybe because everybody else is also doing it".
Baat sahi hai but I say now that you are giving CAT, give it your best. Beyond that, que sera sera. What will be will be. Thanks to all of you for sharing and I'll be in touch!
P.S. 'Cracking careers' kicks off a special series called 'Countdown to CAT' from next week. If you are a CAT aspirant who'd like to be mentored by our experts in your weak areas, or have any questions regarding preparation and applications, I'd love to hear from you. As always, drop me a line at rashmi_b at yahoo.com.
8 out of 9 people who responded were male and engineering students/ graduates.
Don't know if this reflects the readership of my blog or the general skew in the CAT-taking population (esp the male bit). But weirdly enough, it reflects the approximate class profile at India's top business schools!
Of these 9 people all are currently working:
Two were taking CAT for the first time (both are final year students - but doing their internships and hence technically, 'working')
One for the second time
And six for the third time!
Wow. The reason, I deduce, is that all the engineers are in good jobs and hence aiming only for a top 10 school. So they would rather attempt the exam again and again than settle for the school they got the first time.
The question is, does one's performance improve by taking the exam multiple times?
Well, this came as a revelation to me - YES! One guy's performance has jumped as much as 18 percentile while the average jump from one year to the next appears to be 10 percentile.
As regards classes:
One person has taken absolutely no classes.
Of the rest, TIME appears to be most popular (5 of the respondents were from South India).
Second most mentioned classes were IMS.
Since most were CAT veterans test series/ AIMCATs/ SIMCATs were more popular than classroom coaching. 2 of the 9 had taken a TIME + IMS combo while one had take Time + a local classe (Byju's) for Mock CATs (in Pune).
Problem areas:
While some fit the mythical 'engineer' profile and are struggling with verbal ("I had problems with RCs and am looking to improve by reading books"), others are finding quant to be challenging.
Says one such banda, "English: 98-99 percentile, consistent; Quantis poor, DI is poor.". So, one cannot generalise :)
In fact DI seems to be an even bigger pain in the butt than quant. As one aspirant notes: "My quant is improving, but I am a slow starter. I go in this order: DI, Verbal, Quant. The Verbal section relaxes me. I am a bit rusty when I start. So I underperform in DI. Let's hope I start scoring in DI".
As far as study schedules go here is a typical response:
"On an average I manage around 2 hours everyday, 3 hours on a good day and 1-1.5 hours on a bad day. On Saturdays I manage around 2-3 hours excluding classes (4 hours)".
Only 1 out of 9 claims to put in 5.5 hrs a day. The average study period is about 2 hours. Surprisingly, half the people prefer to study in the morning, before leaving for work!
While all are somehow juggling work and prep, a few are making adjustments in their career to make it happen.
"I used to work in a startup earlier. I was there for 6 months just after graduation. But the work was gruelling, and since it was affecting my CAT prep, I left it to work at a Big Software Company (I was already placed here through campus placements)".
What is your strategy is going to be to improve over next 3 months?
Most plan to just 'read more' and take more Mock CATs. Here is a sample:
"Practice 2 RC and 2 DI sets daily. Honestly, just RCs will be good enough. The DI sets are thrown in just to do well in AIMCATs and increase the feel-good. I feel the real CAT will not have totally difficult DIs like TIME has. This is my idealistic strategy, which I may or may not follow, depending on mood. Weekly AIMCATs should do it for me".
Bschools they are aiming for:
The two freshers are interested 'only in IIMs'.
The repeater junta is a bit more pragmatic and includes a wider range of top bschools. Besides IIMs, they mentioned the following:
XLRI, FMS, MDI - 6
SP Jain - 4
IIFT - 2
SJSOM IITB - 3
NMIMS - 1
others - 1
Was a bit surprised to see S P Jain not in the XLRI/ FMS / MDI category in the minds of prospective MBAs. Average no of schools applied to seems to be 10 (some have counted all IIMs are 'one school' in which case that no is closer to 15!)
Which b-schools do you think you will get?
I asked this question, just. Maybe to see how confident people are... Three out of nine said they are expecting at least one IIM call. The rest had 'no idea' and one actually said 'none'.
He added,"My nondescript verbal communication and my excessive belief in my intelligence, coupled with lack of seriousness should stop me in the interviews. Last year I did not utter a word at the GDs, and later tried to justify this in the interviews".
Finally, a couple of the respondents shared the fact that they're confused. CAT karna bhi chahiye ya nahin?
The lone non-engineer says:
"I find the math section really hard to score on. Sometimes I think that may be I should do a course in Mass Media or Literature as I work in media. But then I'm told that MBA is more lucrative and also because my background is from a different faculty I am not eligible for the full time MA at Mumbai University.
Also I'm not sure how much weight a Mass Media degree really holds, in term of growth in my job. From I can see, it is mostly freshers who do the course at XIC or Sophias".
And one of the engineers is even more ruthless in his assessment:
"I pity those (including me), who have no idea why they are pursuing MBA. There's a vague incentive of money, but what will I do with the money if I have no time to use it?
And still we keep crowding the place, maybe because we are not smart/ brave enough to find anything better to do, or maybe because everybody else is also doing it".
Baat sahi hai but I say now that you are giving CAT, give it your best. Beyond that, que sera sera. What will be will be. Thanks to all of you for sharing and I'll be in touch!
P.S. 'Cracking careers' kicks off a special series called 'Countdown to CAT' from next week. If you are a CAT aspirant who'd like to be mentored by our experts in your weak areas, or have any questions regarding preparation and applications, I'd love to hear from you. As always, drop me a line at rashmi_b at yahoo.com.
Thursday, July 17, 2008
Are you giving CAT this year?
If yes, I would like to hear from you with the following details:
a) Is this yr first attempt?
b) How much are you scoring right now in different sections
c) How much more is this from when your started
d) What is yr daily study schedule like?
e) What classes, if any, have you joined
f) Have u joined different classes for material and Mock CATs?
g) What your strategy is going to be to improve over next 3 months
h) What bschools are you aiming for?
i) Which bschools do you think you will get?
j) How many bschools do you plan to apply for in all (approx no)?
k) What is your educational background
l) Are you working or studying?
m) Anyhing else you'd like to share
And of course, your name, city of residence and contact details. You can mail me at rashmi_b at yahoo.com
Kyun chahiye? Well, rest assured it's for the greatest common good. All will be revealed in due time, trust me.
Break over. Kindly hit the books!
On a separate note, I am also looking for an MBA (Systems) to interview. This is for the Cracking Careers show on UTVi.
a) Is this yr first attempt?
b) How much are you scoring right now in different sections
c) How much more is this from when your started
d) What is yr daily study schedule like?
e) What classes, if any, have you joined
f) Have u joined different classes for material and Mock CATs?
g) What your strategy is going to be to improve over next 3 months
h) What bschools are you aiming for?
i) Which bschools do you think you will get?
j) How many bschools do you plan to apply for in all (approx no)?
k) What is your educational background
l) Are you working or studying?
m) Anyhing else you'd like to share
And of course, your name, city of residence and contact details. You can mail me at rashmi_b at yahoo.com
Kyun chahiye? Well, rest assured it's for the greatest common good. All will be revealed in due time, trust me.
Break over. Kindly hit the books!
On a separate note, I am also looking for an MBA (Systems) to interview. This is for the Cracking Careers show on UTVi.
Monday, April 07, 2008
CAT goes online
Ending months of speculation the IIMs recently annnounced that the CAT exam is going online from November 2009.
Now this raises several issues. As the TOI notes:
If the exam goes online, not all students will be able to take the exam on the same day as is the case now. The exam will have to be conducted in staggered batches within a window period of a few months. The other change will be that instead of the current single exam paper, the online test will have several different papers of the same level of difficulty.
The report also notes that the exam will be 'similar' to GMAT and GRE except that the results will not appear instantly.
However, I am not sure if that is factually correct. The GMAT and GRE follows a Computer Adaptive model. As the Princeton Review explains:
The computer adapts the test to how you answer the questions. You’ll start off the test with a question of medium difficulty - if you answer it correctly, question number two will get a bit more challenging. Get that one right, and question number three gets harder still. The opposite is true as well. This system continues until you get to the end of the section and your ability level on that subject is determined.
Will the CAT also go the computer adaptive way or will it be a random set generated each time from a master bank of questions? We don't know yet.
Change is always difficult to accept and there may be some hiccups. But I am sure a way will be found to ensure the test is 'fair', computer adaptive or otherwise
Currently there are two admission tests in India which are solely online:
a) BITSAT - for BITS Pilani, Goa (and now Hyderabad)
b) NMAT - for NMIMS
Any of you who've experienced these tests, pls do drop me a line at rashmi_b at yahoo.com with your contact number. Folks who've taken GRE/ GMAT - I'd like to hear from you as well.
And of course, all are welcome to join in the discussion in the comments!
Now this raises several issues. As the TOI notes:
If the exam goes online, not all students will be able to take the exam on the same day as is the case now. The exam will have to be conducted in staggered batches within a window period of a few months. The other change will be that instead of the current single exam paper, the online test will have several different papers of the same level of difficulty.
The report also notes that the exam will be 'similar' to GMAT and GRE except that the results will not appear instantly.
However, I am not sure if that is factually correct. The GMAT and GRE follows a Computer Adaptive model. As the Princeton Review explains:
The computer adapts the test to how you answer the questions. You’ll start off the test with a question of medium difficulty - if you answer it correctly, question number two will get a bit more challenging. Get that one right, and question number three gets harder still. The opposite is true as well. This system continues until you get to the end of the section and your ability level on that subject is determined.
Will the CAT also go the computer adaptive way or will it be a random set generated each time from a master bank of questions? We don't know yet.
Change is always difficult to accept and there may be some hiccups. But I am sure a way will be found to ensure the test is 'fair', computer adaptive or otherwise
Currently there are two admission tests in India which are solely online:
a) BITSAT - for BITS Pilani, Goa (and now Hyderabad)
b) NMAT - for NMIMS
Any of you who've experienced these tests, pls do drop me a line at rashmi_b at yahoo.com with your contact number. Folks who've taken GRE/ GMAT - I'd like to hear from you as well.
And of course, all are welcome to join in the discussion in the comments!
Thursday, December 13, 2007
MBA ki amar kahani
The MBA is more than a degree – it’s the last refuge of the studious, the seeker and the scoundrel. A tongue in cheek look at why the MBA is here to stay.
(written late one night under the influence of Maggi noodles - which kept me alive in my MBA days)
Mere paas gaadi hai, bangla hai, daulat hai, shohrat hai… tumhare paas kya hai?
Abhi toh kuch nahin… par main MBA ki taiyyari kar raha hoon!
Two hundred and thirty thousand young men and women with stars in their eyes and hope in their hearts gave the CAT – or the Common Admission Test – for entry to the IIMs and assorted other MBA institutes in the year 2007. And there will be more next year. Because the MBA is no longer a degree, it’s a declaration.
What you declare depends on where you do the MBA from. There’s first and foremost the guys (and a few – way too few - gals) who get into the ‘best’ institutions. And they enter the program with the “King of the World” declaration.
Hello fatcats from London, Paris and New York. I‘ve just cleared the most difficult exam in the world to get here… Come get me!
As urban legend has it, an IIM degree is the gateway to a life of cash, caviar and oops! I’m vegetarian, could I have more cash instead, please? The trouble is not everyone can get into an IIM (and not everyone who does gets the caviar!) but as they say, “Aim for the sky and you’ll fall on a jumbo jet… circling Mumbai airport.”
So we have a host of young people joining business schools which are waiting to land at “We have arrived” airport. And theirs is a “Smell the coffee” declaration.
”Look at us – we’re no less than those IIM grads. Heck, we work harder and smarter, just give us a chance to prove it.”
Lehman. McKinsey – are you listening? Evidently, not yet but this bunch is snapping up a whole lot of plum posts which the IIM types see as prunes. And the aroma of that coffee - it’s getting stronger.
Now the next lot also aimed for the sky but ended up on the terrace of an under construction building. Plenty of those, these days, by guys who’ve just had terrific IPOs. Everything’s swanky here – good to look at, feels great to be here. Of course, we all agree it’s overpriced but do we have a choice?
Na huh. Need house, will buy. Need employee, will employ. Retail, banking, insurance, IT, BPOs – these sectors need hands and legs with a moderate amount of brains to match. And not in the dozens but hundreds. Thousands, actually.
So they swoop down on the ‘Jhumritalaiyya’ variety of MBA colleges and recruit large numbers. Yes, if nothing else these graduates ‘look like MBAs’. They carry laptops, wear formals, carry pink papers under the elbow and generally look self important. Just the kind of firepower needed to subdue the hapless consumer into signing on for ULIPs, NFOs and other acronyms which easily roll off the MBA tongue. Assuring him a generous slice of your ‘better tomorrow’.
Last but not the least come the ‘MBA as timepass’ variety. Of course, all education can be said to be a form of timepass – but who’s actually awake to notice? Nevertheless the MBA program now attracts the unlikeliest of species. For example, girls who have no ambition or intention of climbing the corporate ladder. Or running a business.
These are girls who simply wish to get married.
The catch is that “acche ladke padhi likhi ladki chahte hain”. And these days, Home Science does not qualify. As more and more boys from bijness families take up the MBA – at Indian institute for people with money (with sham entrance exam) or Australian business school for people with money (with sham entrance exam but dollar pricing), the girls are following suit.
As doctor once married doctor, MBA now marries MBA. A quick scan of the Sunday matrimonials reveals how the once revered MA has fallen out of favour. It’s now about MBA and LPA (lakhs per annum). Working for a year or two after graduation is encouraged. How many will continue building their careers after marriage depends on DRA (Dulhe Raja’s Attitude).
Phir bhi, progress hi to hai. Once upon a time thousands of young people struggled for a few hundred seats in the administrative service. The majority eked out a life after the dream faded away. Now thousands struggle for a few hundred seats in the most prestigious bschools. But the rest have a chance to start somewhere – even if at the bottom of a rickety ladder.
With hard work and a bit of luck, all these MBAs will climb upwards. They will grow the economy, and grow with it as well. “Do we need to pay 22 year olds 25,000 a month just because they can now use Powerpoint,” is a question the Older Generation often ponders. The answer is, not really.
But in a world where no one has the time or the energy to sift through hundreds of carbon copied, error-ridden-despite-being-spellchecked resumes, we’d rather take our chances with the ‘MBA”.
The MBA is a necessity because our education system is in shambles. Young minds go through conveyor belt colleges and come out unchallenged, underconfident and not even used to the idea of ‘working hard’.
In India, business school is the ultimate ‘finishing school’ – it finishes up the work 15-16 years of previous education was supposed to. MBA courses are all modelled along ‘boot camp’. Projects, presentations, surprise tests, case studies, all night study sessions – this is the stuff of the average student’s worst nightmare. But ultimately, the badge every MBA proudly wears.
And for this alone, HR managers will tolerate the jargon, the attitude, the insouciance of the ‘is this what I did an MBA for’ MBA.
Speaking of finishing school, the MBA – from the student point of view – is crossing the final finish line of education. There’s nothing more you can do beyond this to ‘better your prospects’. Escape from a boring job into something glamorous (or at least better paid!). The MBA is like “Incredible India” advertisements. The brochure can sometimes be more attractive than the actual sights.
And yet, you crave that experience. Happily, it no longer matters how old or young, smart or dumb, rich or poor you are. There is an ‘MBA’ for everyone. 1 year executive programs, 2 year distance learning MBAs, 3 year part time course. Qualifications which would earlier fall under the uncool sounding ‘vocational’ now attract tons of students by renaming themselves as ‘MBAs’.
So you have MBA (Retail), MBA (Insurance), MBA (Telemarketing). The last one is a figment of my imagination but I wouldn’t be surprised to see such a course in the market very soon…
In the ultimate analysis, ‘MBA’ is whatever you make it to be. Or whatever you make of it. The MBA is here to stay, until another degree which captures the imagination of our people comes along. That could take a while.
And hey, we just might subvert it and convert it. “Let them eat cake… and let us all do MBAs.” Amen.
Heh he heh
In the hit movie ‘Partner’ Govinda plays an ‘IIM Ahmedabad graduate’. Now many IIM grads are nerds who have no idea how to woo a girl. But a salary of Rs 30,000 a month at age 30? Tauba tauba.
Surprising the IIM types did not take out a morcha to the scriptwriter’s house, sue the producer for maligning the fair name of IIM A, and start an e-petition imploring the all television anchors who need a ‘Question of the Day’ to take notice. Guess they were too busy with placements…
(written late one night under the influence of Maggi noodles - which kept me alive in my MBA days)
Mere paas gaadi hai, bangla hai, daulat hai, shohrat hai… tumhare paas kya hai?
Abhi toh kuch nahin… par main MBA ki taiyyari kar raha hoon!
Two hundred and thirty thousand young men and women with stars in their eyes and hope in their hearts gave the CAT – or the Common Admission Test – for entry to the IIMs and assorted other MBA institutes in the year 2007. And there will be more next year. Because the MBA is no longer a degree, it’s a declaration.
What you declare depends on where you do the MBA from. There’s first and foremost the guys (and a few – way too few - gals) who get into the ‘best’ institutions. And they enter the program with the “King of the World” declaration.
Hello fatcats from London, Paris and New York. I‘ve just cleared the most difficult exam in the world to get here… Come get me!
As urban legend has it, an IIM degree is the gateway to a life of cash, caviar and oops! I’m vegetarian, could I have more cash instead, please? The trouble is not everyone can get into an IIM (and not everyone who does gets the caviar!) but as they say, “Aim for the sky and you’ll fall on a jumbo jet… circling Mumbai airport.”
So we have a host of young people joining business schools which are waiting to land at “We have arrived” airport. And theirs is a “Smell the coffee” declaration.
”Look at us – we’re no less than those IIM grads. Heck, we work harder and smarter, just give us a chance to prove it.”
Lehman. McKinsey – are you listening? Evidently, not yet but this bunch is snapping up a whole lot of plum posts which the IIM types see as prunes. And the aroma of that coffee - it’s getting stronger.
Now the next lot also aimed for the sky but ended up on the terrace of an under construction building. Plenty of those, these days, by guys who’ve just had terrific IPOs. Everything’s swanky here – good to look at, feels great to be here. Of course, we all agree it’s overpriced but do we have a choice?
Na huh. Need house, will buy. Need employee, will employ. Retail, banking, insurance, IT, BPOs – these sectors need hands and legs with a moderate amount of brains to match. And not in the dozens but hundreds. Thousands, actually.
So they swoop down on the ‘Jhumritalaiyya’ variety of MBA colleges and recruit large numbers. Yes, if nothing else these graduates ‘look like MBAs’. They carry laptops, wear formals, carry pink papers under the elbow and generally look self important. Just the kind of firepower needed to subdue the hapless consumer into signing on for ULIPs, NFOs and other acronyms which easily roll off the MBA tongue. Assuring him a generous slice of your ‘better tomorrow’.
Last but not the least come the ‘MBA as timepass’ variety. Of course, all education can be said to be a form of timepass – but who’s actually awake to notice? Nevertheless the MBA program now attracts the unlikeliest of species. For example, girls who have no ambition or intention of climbing the corporate ladder. Or running a business.
These are girls who simply wish to get married.
The catch is that “acche ladke padhi likhi ladki chahte hain”. And these days, Home Science does not qualify. As more and more boys from bijness families take up the MBA – at Indian institute for people with money (with sham entrance exam) or Australian business school for people with money (with sham entrance exam but dollar pricing), the girls are following suit.
As doctor once married doctor, MBA now marries MBA. A quick scan of the Sunday matrimonials reveals how the once revered MA has fallen out of favour. It’s now about MBA and LPA (lakhs per annum). Working for a year or two after graduation is encouraged. How many will continue building their careers after marriage depends on DRA (Dulhe Raja’s Attitude).
Phir bhi, progress hi to hai. Once upon a time thousands of young people struggled for a few hundred seats in the administrative service. The majority eked out a life after the dream faded away. Now thousands struggle for a few hundred seats in the most prestigious bschools. But the rest have a chance to start somewhere – even if at the bottom of a rickety ladder.
With hard work and a bit of luck, all these MBAs will climb upwards. They will grow the economy, and grow with it as well. “Do we need to pay 22 year olds 25,000 a month just because they can now use Powerpoint,” is a question the Older Generation often ponders. The answer is, not really.
But in a world where no one has the time or the energy to sift through hundreds of carbon copied, error-ridden-despite-being-spellchecked resumes, we’d rather take our chances with the ‘MBA”.
The MBA is a necessity because our education system is in shambles. Young minds go through conveyor belt colleges and come out unchallenged, underconfident and not even used to the idea of ‘working hard’.
In India, business school is the ultimate ‘finishing school’ – it finishes up the work 15-16 years of previous education was supposed to. MBA courses are all modelled along ‘boot camp’. Projects, presentations, surprise tests, case studies, all night study sessions – this is the stuff of the average student’s worst nightmare. But ultimately, the badge every MBA proudly wears.
And for this alone, HR managers will tolerate the jargon, the attitude, the insouciance of the ‘is this what I did an MBA for’ MBA.
Speaking of finishing school, the MBA – from the student point of view – is crossing the final finish line of education. There’s nothing more you can do beyond this to ‘better your prospects’. Escape from a boring job into something glamorous (or at least better paid!). The MBA is like “Incredible India” advertisements. The brochure can sometimes be more attractive than the actual sights.
And yet, you crave that experience. Happily, it no longer matters how old or young, smart or dumb, rich or poor you are. There is an ‘MBA’ for everyone. 1 year executive programs, 2 year distance learning MBAs, 3 year part time course. Qualifications which would earlier fall under the uncool sounding ‘vocational’ now attract tons of students by renaming themselves as ‘MBAs’.
So you have MBA (Retail), MBA (Insurance), MBA (Telemarketing). The last one is a figment of my imagination but I wouldn’t be surprised to see such a course in the market very soon…
In the ultimate analysis, ‘MBA’ is whatever you make it to be. Or whatever you make of it. The MBA is here to stay, until another degree which captures the imagination of our people comes along. That could take a while.
And hey, we just might subvert it and convert it. “Let them eat cake… and let us all do MBAs.” Amen.
Heh he heh
In the hit movie ‘Partner’ Govinda plays an ‘IIM Ahmedabad graduate’. Now many IIM grads are nerds who have no idea how to woo a girl. But a salary of Rs 30,000 a month at age 30? Tauba tauba.
Surprising the IIM types did not take out a morcha to the scriptwriter’s house, sue the producer for maligning the fair name of IIM A, and start an e-petition imploring the all television anchors who need a ‘Question of the Day’ to take notice. Guess they were too busy with placements…
Thursday, November 15, 2007
You are invited to the JAMCAT concert
On Sunday Nov 18 @ 6.30 pm in these cities:Bangalore
St Joseph's Boys School, Museum Rd
Bands playing: White Noiz, Junkyard Groove and Motherjane
Delhi
College of Vocational Studies, Sheikh Sarai (south campus)
Bands playing: Prithvi, Them Clones and Parikrama
Mumbai
SNDT college ground, Juhu
Bands playing: The Works, Gaurav Dagaonkar and Zero
Pune
Elysium, Koregaon Park
Bands playing: Black, Brute Force and Agni
Music aur CAT ka kya vaasta? Well, after the toughest exam of the year we think it's time for you to let your hair down. Of course the concerts are open to all music lovers but those who land up with their CAT admit cards get into the VIP section :)
You can print out as many invites as you want to this FREE concert (thanks to sponsors Bindass and LG Shine mobile phones) from the JAM website.
Or you can sms JAMCAT 53636 + City of your choice for an m-invite. Those of you with college or office lans it'd be great if you could put up the invite so junta can download it.
Lastly if you land up a bit early u can audition for Bindass TV's 'Go to space' contest.
P.S. We are also distributing passes outside CAT centres right after the exam. Have a pretty big list but details re: your test centre in Mumbai, Pune, Delhi and Bangalore would be very welcome. Would like to cover as many as possible :) Email rashmi_b at yahoo.com
Saturday, July 28, 2007
IIM Bangalore and the Order of Admissions
A top secret, highly classified document has just been released. Not by the CIA, but IIM Bangalore.
The cloaked in mystery, shrouded in enigma, super secret selection procedure to one of the most elite management institutes in the country is now a matter of public record. A 5 page document outlining exactly how IIM B admits candidates into its flagship 2 year PGP program is now available on the institute website.
All those of you giving CAT this year will no doubt be excited by the contents of the release. Like the CAT RC section, it's a bit of a daze to read so let me sum up what it says:
PHASE 1
a) Stage 1 shortlist: This is prepared solely on the basis of performance in CAT. You need to achieve certain minimum cut offs in each section. Of course these cut offs vary from year to year, depending on how test takers have performed as a whole.
No big surprise here, we've kind of known this.
b) Stage 2 shortlist: Here is the real bombshell.
For all candidates in the first shortlist as stated in Table 1, the weighted total of the five components namely (a) work experience or professional course, (b) CAT, (c) 10th board, (d) 12th board, (e) bachelor’s as stated above was used to prepare a pre-GDPI rank list for calling candidates for the GDPI.
This means having a high CAT score is not enough to get an interview call to IIM B. Your past academic performance matters a hell of a lot.
How much? Well, the weightage is as follows:
CAT = 20
10th board=15
12th board=10
Bachelors= 15.
(If you have not completed Bachelor's your marks in undergrad years will be considered instead).
Weightage for work experience and/ or professional course was assigned as 10. Interestingly, CA is the ONLY professional course eligible for weight under the criteria 'professional course'. And the formula for work ex gives the highest score to candidates with an experience of 36 months duration.
Thus the profile of the candidate most likely to get a call from IIM B is as follows:
* High CAT score, cleared all sectional cut offs
* Consistent academic performance across 10th, 12th and graduation.
* 1-3 years work experience.
* A CA with good CAT scores and impressive academic record could have a small advantage.
However there are always exceptions to the rule and IIM B ackowledges that.
For all candidates in the first shortlist as stated in (1), the top 10 candidates in each sectional and total score in CAT, adjusted SSC, HSC, Bachelors and professional (CA) (from the first shortlist, as created in Table 1) automatically qualified for GDPI.
IIM B explains: These candidates were given a chance to appear for GDPI due to their exceptional performance on one parameter.
At the end of the process, however, they were treated like any other candidate and had to qualify on the basis of 'composite aggregate score'.
PHASE TWO
For each of the three elements of evaluation during the GDPI process – Group Discussion, Group Discussion Summary, Personal Interview - the average of the scores given by the two interviewing faculty was considered.
Weights as follows:
GD score - 7.5
G D summary - 7.5
Personal Interview - 20
Frankly, I never knew 'G D Summary' was important!
During the interview 'work experience quality' is evaluated on a 5 point scale (0 – 0.5 – 1 – 1.5 – 2) by each member of the panel. The average quality of work experience score was multiplied by the pre-GDPI work experience score and accordingly revised in Phase 2.
The Group Discussion score, Group Discussion Summary score, Personal Interview score, after standardization within interview panels, were added to the pre-GDPI total (with revisions in Work Ex Score, if any) to arrive at the final aggregate score.
And that is the basis of the final ranks. The 'total' scores were out of 105.
There is a separate note on candidates admitted through GMAT which is around 3-4 students a year.
My observations:
# When the IIMs started revealing percentile scores, one layer of secrecy was peeled away. Now, IIM B has gone fully public.
The revelations come following an RTI application filed by a disabled candidate who was not called for interview. However IIM B says it will reveal the 'formula' for this year's selections (which is tweaked from year to year) before CAT 2007. Wonder if other IIMs will decide to go 'transparent' as well!
# The subject of deepest debate re: the IIM B admit procedure is the amount of importance it gives to 'consistent and high performance in past academics'. This makes your class 10 boards one of the most crucial milestones in life!
The coaching class guys will have a lot of explaining to do. No matter how well you do in the present ie in clearing CAT, your past can and will will drag you down!
# Of course once you are shortlisted for an interview your communication skills in the GD and the impression you make in the interview do play an important role. The vague explanation given about what the panel looks for in the PI clearly indicates there is a level of subjectivity.
Each faculty used the Personal Interview to comprehensively evaluate the candidate’s motivation and ability to fit in and benefit from the PGP program.
Sounds like the 'X factor' rating to me. A bit of extra currics,confidence minus cockiness and wide eyed earnestness should see you through. Clarity of fundas on your undergrad subject also matters. Also...
All candidates were required to provide three confidential reference letters from their employers or faculty and this was also used in the personal interview evaluation.
Never knew about that one! But a positive step, in building a more 'complete picture'. Overall the subjective part of the admisson process - GD & PI - make up 33% of the aggregate score. That means there is a chance to play catch up relative to the ubergeeks who've made it with you so far!
# The other interesting thing is the amount of detailing involved at each stage. For example:
For all candidates in the first shortlist as stated in Table 1, the candidates’ percentage scores in the 10th and 12th board exams are standardized by dividing each score by the 90th percentile score obtained in that board. The database of 10th and 12th scores of all CAT applicants of the past two years was used for identifying the 90th percentile score for each 10th and 12th board for this purpose.
Ah. That's a lot of number work!
# Another point to note: OBC qualifying cut offs were specified although following the SC judgement OBC candidates were not actually called for interviews separately It's heartening to know the OBC cut offs were pegged very close to General cut offs.
eg In Data & Logic section General candidates needed to score 85% while OBCs neededt 75%. The qualifying score for SCs, STs and disabled was 50%.
# There is no mention of any 'quota' for people of different academic streams, or gender. Those from elite institutions don't get preference except that they are more likely to have been toppers in class 10 and 12 to begin with.
There is some debate on this subject going on here.
# Lastly, the mathematicalness of it all is astounding. This 'multi variate analysis' or whatchamacallit is very impressive and very Greek to the general public. Transparency cloaked in invisibility - Shri Harry Potter would have been pleased!
A current PGP at IIMB remarks: It can’t be proved that it’s the best way to process admissions, but it sure is the only way that is objective and looks successful, from the outside, at least.
In the final analysis I would say IIMs are designed to attract well rounded geeks. But emphasis on the geek aspect is higher, the well rounded bit a happy coincidence.
There are a lot of 'been a topper throughout my life' on these campuses. The exam and subsequent process is designed to admit this profile.
Someone should now study the co relation between ranks at the time of admission and ranks while on campus. And ten years later, co relate the same two ranks with the individual's performance in the corporate world.
I am sure some formula taking into account size of company, designation, pay packet, role, reporting relationships and so on could be figured out as a metric of 'success'.
The analysis should include a 33% weightage to an interview where personal satisfaction and that elusive thing called 'quality of life' is factored in.
And on a more philosophical note, I wonder when we will be freed of past patterns of thinking. Yes, the past can predict the future but it can also constrain it. The 'yesterday predicts tomorrow' line of thinking discounts the power of the human spirit to achieve and overcome. To rise to new challenges.
Regardless of what IIM B might say, you gotta shed the baggage of the past, live in the present and dream for the future!
The cloaked in mystery, shrouded in enigma, super secret selection procedure to one of the most elite management institutes in the country is now a matter of public record. A 5 page document outlining exactly how IIM B admits candidates into its flagship 2 year PGP program is now available on the institute website.
All those of you giving CAT this year will no doubt be excited by the contents of the release. Like the CAT RC section, it's a bit of a daze to read so let me sum up what it says:
PHASE 1
a) Stage 1 shortlist: This is prepared solely on the basis of performance in CAT. You need to achieve certain minimum cut offs in each section. Of course these cut offs vary from year to year, depending on how test takers have performed as a whole.
No big surprise here, we've kind of known this.
b) Stage 2 shortlist: Here is the real bombshell.
For all candidates in the first shortlist as stated in Table 1, the weighted total of the five components namely (a) work experience or professional course, (b) CAT, (c) 10th board, (d) 12th board, (e) bachelor’s as stated above was used to prepare a pre-GDPI rank list for calling candidates for the GDPI.
This means having a high CAT score is not enough to get an interview call to IIM B. Your past academic performance matters a hell of a lot.
How much? Well, the weightage is as follows:
CAT = 20
10th board=15
12th board=10
Bachelors= 15.
(If you have not completed Bachelor's your marks in undergrad years will be considered instead).
Weightage for work experience and/ or professional course was assigned as 10. Interestingly, CA is the ONLY professional course eligible for weight under the criteria 'professional course'. And the formula for work ex gives the highest score to candidates with an experience of 36 months duration.
Thus the profile of the candidate most likely to get a call from IIM B is as follows:
* High CAT score, cleared all sectional cut offs
* Consistent academic performance across 10th, 12th and graduation.
* 1-3 years work experience.
* A CA with good CAT scores and impressive academic record could have a small advantage.
However there are always exceptions to the rule and IIM B ackowledges that.
For all candidates in the first shortlist as stated in (1), the top 10 candidates in each sectional and total score in CAT, adjusted SSC, HSC, Bachelors and professional (CA) (from the first shortlist, as created in Table 1) automatically qualified for GDPI.
IIM B explains: These candidates were given a chance to appear for GDPI due to their exceptional performance on one parameter.
At the end of the process, however, they were treated like any other candidate and had to qualify on the basis of 'composite aggregate score'.
PHASE TWO
For each of the three elements of evaluation during the GDPI process – Group Discussion, Group Discussion Summary, Personal Interview - the average of the scores given by the two interviewing faculty was considered.
Weights as follows:
GD score - 7.5
G D summary - 7.5
Personal Interview - 20
Frankly, I never knew 'G D Summary' was important!
During the interview 'work experience quality' is evaluated on a 5 point scale (0 – 0.5 – 1 – 1.5 – 2) by each member of the panel. The average quality of work experience score was multiplied by the pre-GDPI work experience score and accordingly revised in Phase 2.
The Group Discussion score, Group Discussion Summary score, Personal Interview score, after standardization within interview panels, were added to the pre-GDPI total (with revisions in Work Ex Score, if any) to arrive at the final aggregate score.
And that is the basis of the final ranks. The 'total' scores were out of 105.
There is a separate note on candidates admitted through GMAT which is around 3-4 students a year.
My observations:
# When the IIMs started revealing percentile scores, one layer of secrecy was peeled away. Now, IIM B has gone fully public.
The revelations come following an RTI application filed by a disabled candidate who was not called for interview. However IIM B says it will reveal the 'formula' for this year's selections (which is tweaked from year to year) before CAT 2007. Wonder if other IIMs will decide to go 'transparent' as well!
# The subject of deepest debate re: the IIM B admit procedure is the amount of importance it gives to 'consistent and high performance in past academics'. This makes your class 10 boards one of the most crucial milestones in life!
The coaching class guys will have a lot of explaining to do. No matter how well you do in the present ie in clearing CAT, your past can and will will drag you down!
# Of course once you are shortlisted for an interview your communication skills in the GD and the impression you make in the interview do play an important role. The vague explanation given about what the panel looks for in the PI clearly indicates there is a level of subjectivity.
Each faculty used the Personal Interview to comprehensively evaluate the candidate’s motivation and ability to fit in and benefit from the PGP program.
Sounds like the 'X factor' rating to me. A bit of extra currics,confidence minus cockiness and wide eyed earnestness should see you through. Clarity of fundas on your undergrad subject also matters. Also...
All candidates were required to provide three confidential reference letters from their employers or faculty and this was also used in the personal interview evaluation.
Never knew about that one! But a positive step, in building a more 'complete picture'. Overall the subjective part of the admisson process - GD & PI - make up 33% of the aggregate score. That means there is a chance to play catch up relative to the ubergeeks who've made it with you so far!
# The other interesting thing is the amount of detailing involved at each stage. For example:
For all candidates in the first shortlist as stated in Table 1, the candidates’ percentage scores in the 10th and 12th board exams are standardized by dividing each score by the 90th percentile score obtained in that board. The database of 10th and 12th scores of all CAT applicants of the past two years was used for identifying the 90th percentile score for each 10th and 12th board for this purpose.
Ah. That's a lot of number work!
# Another point to note: OBC qualifying cut offs were specified although following the SC judgement OBC candidates were not actually called for interviews separately It's heartening to know the OBC cut offs were pegged very close to General cut offs.
eg In Data & Logic section General candidates needed to score 85% while OBCs neededt 75%. The qualifying score for SCs, STs and disabled was 50%.
# There is no mention of any 'quota' for people of different academic streams, or gender. Those from elite institutions don't get preference except that they are more likely to have been toppers in class 10 and 12 to begin with.
There is some debate on this subject going on here.
# Lastly, the mathematicalness of it all is astounding. This 'multi variate analysis' or whatchamacallit is very impressive and very Greek to the general public. Transparency cloaked in invisibility - Shri Harry Potter would have been pleased!
A current PGP at IIMB remarks: It can’t be proved that it’s the best way to process admissions, but it sure is the only way that is objective and looks successful, from the outside, at least.
In the final analysis I would say IIMs are designed to attract well rounded geeks. But emphasis on the geek aspect is higher, the well rounded bit a happy coincidence.
There are a lot of 'been a topper throughout my life' on these campuses. The exam and subsequent process is designed to admit this profile.
Someone should now study the co relation between ranks at the time of admission and ranks while on campus. And ten years later, co relate the same two ranks with the individual's performance in the corporate world.
I am sure some formula taking into account size of company, designation, pay packet, role, reporting relationships and so on could be figured out as a metric of 'success'.
The analysis should include a 33% weightage to an interview where personal satisfaction and that elusive thing called 'quality of life' is factored in.
And on a more philosophical note, I wonder when we will be freed of past patterns of thinking. Yes, the past can predict the future but it can also constrain it. The 'yesterday predicts tomorrow' line of thinking discounts the power of the human spirit to achieve and overcome. To rise to new challenges.
Regardless of what IIM B might say, you gotta shed the baggage of the past, live in the present and dream for the future!
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