Chicago Tea Party Folks Need to Talk To St Louis Tea Party Folks Pronto

Oh no!!! Another TEA Party post. The THIRD today .

I am not sure why while I am watching Bama play Tennessee I am on so much this subject today. I have been meaning to write more about my thoughts on the Tea Party movement.

Anyway some thoughts were circulating in my mind when I found this Pro-Tea Party blog from Chicago. See SHAWSBLOG He has a post that caught my eye THE TEA PARTY EXPRESS COMING NEXT WEEK-What the GOP Needs to Know

He says in part

The problem is the TEA PARTY has many members who feel no loyalty to the GOP. They feel no loyalty to the Democrats. The people I am talking about, including myself, feel the system is broken and neither party can or will fix it. Business as usual is not going to right our country. The country needs a fresh start. There are maybe a dozen in DC worth retaining. The rest must go. Its time to return to citizens running Washington, this is what the founders intended.
Unless GOP candidates are for less spending and small government, we won’t vote for them.

The GOP feels that, for them to return to power, the TEA PARTY must become less of a seperate entity and eventually meld into the GOP.

The GOP is missing the point. The TEA PARTY is bigger than the GOP. The TEA PARTY has many former democrats and indepenents as memebrs. The TEA PARTY’s views aren’t going to change. And, if the GOP wants to be in power again, it will have to adopt the views of the TEA PARTY…… SHAW

Well that is all well and good but Chicago needs to get on the phone to Missouri because it appears they are missing the "alleged" official point.

We read from the City of the Arch:

Dana Loesch and Bill Hennessy called for the GOP to dump Dede in NY-23. Loesch and Hennessy spoke outside of St. Louis City Hall where they called on Tea Partiers to support conservative Doug Hoffman over liberal, Acorn-backed, Dede Scozzafava. When asked about this confrontation with the GOP, Dana remarked that Tea Partiers were not going to be co-opt by the Republican Party, but were rather in the process of taking it over. Bill Hennessy praised Ed Martin (R), who is running to unseat Russ Carnahan (D-MO) in MO-03, for taking a stand in support of Doug Hoffman. Bill called on other Missouri Republicans to do the same. Paul Curtman, who is running for state rep in Missouri's 105th, was there to support conservatism and Doug Hoffman. Check out some of my pictures from the event.

So what is it?

Is the Tea Party movement going to be a party competing with the rest of us for the trust of the American voter and thus the GOP needs to end this attempted relationship

or

Is the Tea Party Movement an organization that will give it votes to the person or party candidate that best represents their ideals thus the GOP should court you

or

Is the TEA Party movement wanting to become an active faction in the GOP as we deal with each other in a honorable way in electing people and formulating policy which includes "Tea Party "Republican Officals ?

or

Is the Tea Party Movement placing agent provocateurs in the party that if we GOPers should find them need to be taken out to the levee and shot

or

Is the Tea Party Movement going to take over the parts of the GOP , get elected to various areas of responsibility, receive the benefits of the GOP including funding, but run away if their guy or gal in a particular primary is not elected

What is it? Even the TEA Party people running the show that are barking out commands, threats and ultimatums through various entities every five minutes don't seem to know.

The Factions of the Tea Party Movement -Can They Get Along?

This is related to this post I suppose Tea Party Movement Playing With Fire In New York Race

I ran across a good post at A Brief History…. See Tea Parties and NY 23 . I think he makes some good observations. He says in part the "Republicans are upset at the tea partiers in NY 23 for backing Hoffman but that will be a nice test. The election is only for one year so little is lost if the Democrat wins a split race. But, if Hoffman wins, they will have to start to take the movement seriously instead of trying to co-opt them. First, I think the tea parties are libertarian, not “right wing.” That’s what I’ve seen in Mission Viejo, where we have turned out 500+ on each occasion.
This will be a very important race, more so than Virginia or New Jersey which are old line pols running on both sides."

I am not sure exactly what he means by"co-opt". It seems if a Republican shows up at a event of theirs they appreciate it but then a large faction goes "they are trying to "Co-opt" which gets tiresome. He does state though that Tea Party folks are trying to gain control of the GOP in areas and as he says Which is the tail and which is the dog?

I think he is right that it is "libertarian" in its ethos. That is why , thought I agree with some of what they say and defend them, I am not in the tea bag movement. I am not a libertarian.

Regardless I have always thought the more interesting story here that rarely gets examined is not how the libertarian movement effects the GOP but what do Party Libertarians think about all this.

The Tea Party movement I expect has fault lines similar to what we see in the Libertarian movement to a certain degree. The big question if the TEA Party movement is to have a real effect is how they handle this diversity.

What can people disagree on with out being called a T-PINO. That is a "Tea Party in name only" person. For instance what if the famous Glen Reynolds of Instapundit ran for major office on the Tea Party ticket. He appears to be a big supporter. Would we see a replay of what happened in the GOP where Catholic and Christian pro lifers GOP folks threatened to bolt if a certain New York Mayor got elected or a pro-choice person was put on the ticket? What would happened?

How would the TEA Party movement handle a pro gay marriage, pro drug legalization, pro embryonic stem cell and abortion right person. How many people in the tea bag movement believe in these positions and how many oppose. I THINK but I am not sure that TEA Party movement trends social conservative. But I have also met many people that think this movement is great and that are involved that have the attitude the main problem with the GOP is all these damn Religious folks.

What happens after we get beyond issues dealing with regulation and taxes?

Would a Rep Flake of Arizona (that I suspect has positions close to TEA Party folks on almost all issues) be not welcome because he is a huge advocate of immigration reform. I do think the TEA bag movement is very anti immigration reform as we have seen proposed in the past. But maybe not. There might be a faction in their that takes the more traditional Libertarian viewpoint of it. How do they deal with these folks internally.

If were to take a poll how many people would think Huckabee and Jindal are FAUX conservative and how many think they represent Tea Party ideals.

In the end how they get along with each other when they are forced to confront these issues among themselves will tell us if this is a long term movement.

I have my doubts that a movement that in my observation is very quick to throw out the RINO term can do this. In fact in the comment section of the link I I note:

...........The thing is, they do need the organization that the GOP already has or they will wither on the vine the way the Reform Party did. You need officers, treasurers to file regular reports, esp with the new campaign finance laws.
I think they can get the financial & boots on the ground they need but they do have to get along and not automatically assume that ALL of us are RINO’s by virtue of being party members. Some of us wormed our way in back when for the same purpose, but have trouble working with the insurgents because they come off so stupid and inarticulate in meetings. They can’t seem to say what they want exactly, but maybe if we found some good candidates we’d figure it out together...........

That gets tiresome real quick. I am pretty big mainstream Conservative I think and being called a RINO because I have been active in the party (calling up folks, registering voters, attending meetings, walking out in the hot Louisiana humid afternoons going door to door for GOP folks- You know the unglamorous stuff) gets old. Espcilly when I notice a lot of these folks have been AWOL the last few years even with the most conservative of people running. That is just what I have experienced.

So we shall see. There is a good amount of legitimate anger in the TEA PARTY movement. But once you get passed "THROW THEM ALL OUT" as I hear can you govern.

Tea Party Movement Playing With Fire In New York Race

I noticed this item today (Thanks Instapundit)

Reboot Congress has St Louis Tea Party takes on the GOP

You know people can do whatever they want in this race but some of this does not seem logical or helpful. In fact I think it will backfire.

First I am not sure we want to see a trend where GOP elected folks outside districts are going to interfere and support a non GOP person. As I have noted elsewhere if people want a more conservative person in race x to win then they would be better off electing people and organizations to do that in the various districts.

I am not sure it is productive at all for Tea Party folks ,that in their words are as to the GOP "in the process of taking it over", protesting in Missouri to have GOP Congressmen and others back a non GOP guy in New York!!

Do we really want to go down this road? Would it not be better for the Tea party folks to run people to get into power in the GOP party structure in that district? I mean does this not seem to run counter to a long held GOP principle and conservative one too of local control? I mean do people in lets say Missouri know the inner dynamics of what is happening in my neck of the woods? I have no problem with people sending money or giving opinions in the primaries but this seems like a bad idea.

A few concerns-
One unless there is some "DAVID DUKE SCENARIO" I don't think the GOP elected officials or groups should be interfering in races outside their locality and supporting a non GOP person. People in their private capacities can do whatever they want. THESE GOES FOR ALL FOLKS IN THE GOP ORBIT whether they are liberal, moderate, conservative, or Libertarian.

One thing these folks have got to tell me is if this is going to be a trend.

That is if in future primaries if their guy does not win are they going to take their toys and go home. Or will they shake hands say see in in the next primary but we shall work for you to win the general. If it is " we lost we are outta here" then outside the tea party movement is going to join that sort of party?

I understand the concerns but I think this is all counterproductive.

Update- I am going to have more thoughts on this later so look for an update. Needless to say I disagree with the GOP person running in NY on a lot of core issues. Still what I say holds. People need to be thinking long term. What happens if for instance a pro-lifer got nominated up there after a bunch of hard work. What would say to the pro choice Republicans to get them to vote for that person. Support the PARTY? Coalitions are partnerships. More later as I respond to a similar blogger.

Update II-
I have related thoughts here at The Factions of the Tea Party Movement -Can They Get Along?