"Is the Trinity consistent with the Old Testament?" Jonathan McLatchie vs. Yusuf Ismail

I recently engaged in a public moderated debate in South Africa with Muslim criminal defense lawyer and apologist, Yusuf Ismail. Our subject was the concept of God in the Hebrew Bible -- specifically, whether God reveals Himself as Triune in the Old Testament. Here is the recording of the debate.

Recording of Webinar with Yusuf Ismail on "Does the Qur'an Promote Peace or Aggressive Violence?"

As previously mentioned, South African Muslim apologist Yusuf Ismail was a guest speaker for my Apologetics Academy webinar series this past Saturday. His topic was "Does the Qur'an Promote Peace or Aggressive Violence?" He spoke for a little over an hour and then took Q&A from the floor for a couple of hours. The recording is embedded above.

Is the Qur'an a Book of Peace, or Aggressive Violence? Come Talk to Yusuf Ismail Tomorrow in a Live Interactive Webinar

Tomorrow, Saturday November 26th, at 8pm GMT / 3pm EST / 2pm CST / 12noon PST, South African Muslim apologist Yusuf Ismail will speak to the Apologetics Academy. He will present the case that the Qur'an teaches peace rather than aggressive violence. We will then open it up to the floor for interactive Q&A, discussion, dialogue and debate. There will be plenty of opportunity for live interaction with the speaker. You can simply watch and listen anonymously as well.

To join the webinar, go to the following URL at or shortly before the webinar's start time:

https://zoom.us/j/457736238

Doing so will immediately prompt you to download and install the Zoom webinar software we use. This should only take a minute or two. You will then be automatically connected to our webinar room. I hope to see many of you there!

By the way, for anyone who reads this blog who might be interested, I am also hosting a webinar later today (Friday) at the same time (8pm GMT / 3pm EST / 2pm CST / 12noon PST). Today my guest is molecular biologist Dr. Douglas Axe, who will be speaking to us about his recent book Undeniable: How Biology Confirms Our Intuition That Life is Designed. To join in, use the same link given above.

Messianic Prophecy in the Jewish Scriptures: A Conversation with Dr. Michael Brown at the Apologetics Academy

Here is the recording of the Webinar I hosted as part of my Apologetics Academy weekly webinar series, with Dr. Michael Brown on Messianic prophecy in the Jewish Scriptures -- also featuring Sam Shamoun and Yusuf Ismail! This session is very much worth watching. Enjoy!

A Response to Yahya Snow On My Debate With Yusuf Ismail

Yahya Snow, a notorious Muslim YouTube polemicist, based in London, whom I have had dealings with in the past, has written a review of my recent debate with South African Muslim apologist Yusuf Ismail on Unbelievable?. The debate topic was "Did Jesus' earliest followers believe He was God?" Yahya begins his review by noting,

"I did not appreciate Jonathan McLatchie’s approach in this debate – it smacked of insincerity. I don’t believe that is an attitude anybody who is putting information out into the public domain should espouse. Very disappointing."

Snow goes on,

"Jonathan McLatchie begins by outlining the significance of this discussion as well stating his aims in the discussion. McLatchie at 9.45 injects wild speculation into his theology by claiming it is essential for the Christian worldview that Jesus was divine. Where’s his proof here? This seems to be old speculation that other evangelical Trinitarian Christians are putting forward, others such as James White."

Yes, you read that right. According to Snow, my contention that the deity of Christ is an essential Christian doctrine is "wild speculation." Actually, this contention can be supported from the words of Jesus Himself. In John 8:24, Jesus makes an allusion to Isaiah 43:10, saying, "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am you will die in your sins."

Does Paul Affirm Christ's Deity?

Yahya goes on,

"Jonathan McLatchie’s intention is to attempt to demonstrate the disciples believed in the divinity of Jesus in an effort to refute Islam. McLatchie wants to show all the earliest sources affirm the deity of Jesus and/or the original followers affirmed this to try and “win the debate”. Jonathan firstly contends Paul clearly affirmed the deity of Jesus in Phil 2:5-11 and 1 Cor 8:6 Hold on did he say 1 Cor 8:6? If he did then we are all left scratching our heads as this is a text Unitarian Christians use to show the Father is the only true God (not Jesus!). What is Jonathan McLatchie thinking here? Here’s the text: yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things cameand for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

Yes, 1 Corinthians 8:6 affirms the deity of Christ. Paul takes the Jewish shema of Deuteronomy 6:4 ("Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God. The Lord is One") and expands on it ("yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist"). Paul thus identifies Jesus Christ as the Lord of the shema and even identifies him as being co-creator with the Father. What is said of Jesus in 1 Corinthians 8:6 ("through whom are all things and through whom we exist") cannot be said of any mere creature.

Later in his review, Yahya asks whether the Carmen Christi (Philippians 2:5-11) supports the idea of the deity of Jesus. He writes,

"This is not really related to the debate subject either but it may be interesting for folks to delve deeper into this. A lot of evangelicals use this argument. However, does the Carmen Christie really teach the deity of Jesus in the manner in which Trinitarians would have us believe? I don’t think so. For those who are interested in researching this area, look into the idea of exaltation theology and subordinationism too. Again, are we seeing evangelicals thrusting their later church traditions on to the text?"

Actually, it is very related to the debate subject, since the Carmen Christi, quoted by Paul in Philippians 2:5-11, is believed by many scholars to be one of our very earliest sources concerning the beliefs of the early church. Given that our debate was on whether the earliest followers of Jesus affirmed His deity, how can Yahya Snow fail to see the relevance of this?

In verse 6 of Philippians 2, we read that Christ ὃς ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ ὑπάρχων (hos en morphē Theou hyparchōn) -- literally, "in the form of God subsisting..." In verse 7, we read, ἀλλὰ ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν μορφὴν δούλου λαβών ἐν ὁμοιώματι ἀνθρώπων (alla heuton ekenōsen morphēn doulou labōn en homoiōmati anthrōpōn) -- literally, "but himself emptied, the form of a servant having taken in the likeness of men." Notice that Paul uses the Greek word μορφῇ (morphē) in both clauses. He thus puts the two in the same category. Just as he was made in the form of a bondservant, so in the same sense he was in the form of God Himself. Verses 10 and 11 also allude to Isaiah 45:23, in which we read, "To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance." The whole context of the Carmen Christi, moreover, is an instruction to emulate the humility of Christ. But one is hardly commended for humility for the act of not seeking to achieve equality with God. Rather, it makes sense only if one is exercising humility by laying aside the divine privilege that was rightfully His.

"Did Jesus' Earliest Followers Believe He Was God?" Jonathan McLatchie vs. Yusuf Ismail

Here is a recent debate that aired on Unbelievable? on Premier Christian Radio between myself and South African Muslim apologist Yusuf Ismail, on whether the Christology of the early church evolved over time (as Muslims frequently claim) or whether Jesus' earliest followers believed in His deity. Enjoy!

"I and the Father are One" (John 10:30): A Claim to Deity?

On Saturdays, at 8pm GMT (3pm Eastern Time / 2pm Central Time), I often run a study group over Skype, called the Advanced Apologetics Group. The purpose of the group is to stimulate Christians to think deeper about their faith, as well as to engage with common objections to the Christian faith, and to build understanding of other worldviews and the people representing those worldviews. If you are interested in joining one of our future sessions and being kept up-to-date on what we are doing, contact me on Facebook and indicate your interest.

I sometimes invite a non-Christian guest to lead a discussion. This past Saturday, we were blessed to have South African Muslim scholar Yusuf Ismail engage with us on the christology of John's gospel. Despite our strong disagreement, it was a cordial and respectful discussion, the way all-such dialogues should be.

One of the texts that we discussed is John 10:30 ("I and the Father are one"), and I was stimulated by our discussion to write a blog post dealing with this text. In order to understand exactly what Jesus was saying, we need to read the verse in the context of the surrounding verses (22-39):

22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” 

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” 39 Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

John 10:30 does indeed teach the deity of Christ, but not for the reason that many Christians think. By saying "I and the Father are one", my personal view (which not all scholars hold) is that Jesus is not talking directly about his ontological unity with the Father. Rather, the context suggests that He is talking about a unity of purpose and will -- namely, in bringing about salvation. But could anyone who was not God have said the sorts of things Jesus said in the lead up to verse 30? Let's take a look at Jesus' statements in turn.

Daniel Wallace Blasts Yusuf Ismail on John 1:1

Daniel Wallace

In the tradition of charlatans like Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik, Yusuf Ismail is convinced that he can be as inaccurate as he likes, because most of the people listening to him won't bother examining what he says (so long as he sounds confident when he speaks).

This tactic is based on numbers. If 400 people are watching a debate, and a Muslim debater completely distorts the facts while sounding like he knows what he's talking about, how many in the audience will take the time to research his claims? One or two? And if one or two do the research and find out that he's been deceptive, who cares? After all, the rest of the audience has fallen for the deception. Doesn't that count as a "win"?

James White has more respect for Muslims than Yusuf Ismail does. Yusuf believes that Muslims are so gullible that they will believe whatever he says (no matter how inaccurate), and that Muslims will never hold him accountable for his blatant misrepresentations of sources. James maintains that truth ultimately triumphs, and that integrity is key.

See how these two different approaches play out as Yusuf tries to dupe his followers, only to have his bluff called by Daniel Wallace (Executive Director of the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts).