Showing posts with label eruvin. Show all posts
Showing posts with label eruvin. Show all posts

Thursday, May 23, 2013

Ribbi or Rabbi

From yesterday's daf Yomi (Eruvin 75b):

אמר רב יוסף תני רבי היו ג' אסורין אמר להו רב ביבי לא תציתו ליה אנא אמריתה ניהלה ומשמיה דרב אדא בר אהבה אמריתה ניהלה הואיל ואני קורא בהן רבים בחיצונה אמר רב יוסף מריה דאברהם רבים ברבי איחלף לי 
Rav Yosef taught a brayta in the name of Rabbi. But, due to an illness he had, he was somewhat forgetful, and students would need to remind him of things he had said and in what context. Here, Rav Bibi said to the other students not to heed Rav Yosed in this, because it was not Rabbi, but rather something he had himself reported to Rav Yosef in the name of Rav Ada bar Ahava, and gave the full context, that he calls such a situation rabbim in the outer chatzer. And Rav Yosef exclaimed that he had switched "Rabbi" with "Rabbim".
Ribbi or Rabbi?

Perhaps this can help resolve the dispute whether רבי in general, as a title, should be pronounced as Ribbi or Rabbi. See here at On the Main Line:
There are two dominant traditional pronunciations for "רבי" the rabbinic Hebrew word and title, as found in vocalized manuscripts of the mishnah and perpetuated in siddurim: ribbi (ribee) and rabbi (rahbee). Roughly speaking, Jews of eastern descent have ribbi and those of western, rabbi
After all, rabbee sounds a lot more like rabbim than ribee. But there might well be a difference between the title in general and Rabbi Yehuda Hanasi's appelation. Or maybe the sounds ribbi / rabbim were close enough.

Friday, November 02, 2012

Is the eruv up?

From The Queens Vaad:

ERUV INFORMATION

Please be advised that the eruv maps provided are for reference purposes only. For the current status of each neighborhood’s eruv, please call the phone numbers listed. For most accurate updates, it is best to call only a few hours before the start of Shabbos or Yuntif.

 
Area / ShulHotline #Eruv Website /
Map of Eruv Boundaries
Briarwood(718) 657-2880 - After 2pm on FridayNot Available
Forest Hills- Rego Park(718) 544-6898See Web Site
Hillcrest(718) 969-2021See Web Site
Glendale(718) 847-3049Not Available
Jamaica Estates/Holliswood(718) 776-8500 Ext. 121See Web Site
Kew Gardens(718) 849-3788 See Web Site
Kew Gardens Hills(718) 263-3921Not Available
South Bayside/Hollis Hills(718) 224-2100 Ext. 26See Web Site
Sunnyside(845) 538-0452Coming Soon

When I tried the # for Kew Gardens Hills just now, they did not yet update the info -- it was for Shabbos parshas Lech Lecha. If anyone calls these numbers and finds out info, please post it in the comment section.

Wednesday, September 21, 2011

Torah on the Moon

Summary: Must we fetch it from there? Did Chazal think we could travel to the moon?


Post: In Nitzavim, we encounter the following pasuk and Rashi.

12. It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who will go up to heaven for us and fetch it for us, to tell [it] to us, so that we can fulfill it?"יב. לֹא בַשָּׁמַיִם הִוא לֵאמֹר מִי יַעֲלֶה לָּנוּ הַשָּׁמַיְמָה וְיִקָּחֶהָ לָּנוּ וְיַשְׁמִעֵנוּ אֹתָהּ וְנַעֲשֶׂנָּה:
לא בשמים היא: שאלו היתה בשמים היית צריך לעלות אחריה וללומדה:



13. Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, "Who will cross to the other side of the sea for us and fetch it for us, to tell [it] to us, so that we can fulfill it?"יג. וְלֹא מֵעֵבֶר לַיָּם הִוא לֵאמֹר מִי יַעֲבָר לָנוּ אֶל עֵבֶר הַיָּם וְיִקָּחֶהָ לָּנוּ וְיַשְׁמִעֵנוּ אֹתָהּ וְנַעֲשֶׂנָּה:


In Taama deKra, Rav Chaim Kanievsky cites the gemara in Eruvin 55a, or else just the Rashi who cites it.
והיינו דאמר אבדימי בר חמא בר דוסא מאי דכתיב (דברים ל, יב) לא בשמים היא ולא מעבר לים היא לא בשמים היא שאם בשמים היא אתה צריך לעלות אחריה ואם מעבר לים היא אתה צריך לעבור אחריה
Or, in English:
This is in harmony with the following statement of R. Abdimi b. Hama b. Dosa: What is the significance of the text: It is not in heaven, [that thou shouldst say: ‘who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us’], neither is it beyond the sea [that thou shouldst sat, ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us’]? ‘It is not in heaven’, for if it were in heaven you should have gone up after it; and if it were ‘beyond the sea’, you should have gone over the sea after it.
Then, he writes:

"From here is implied that men are able to ascend to the moon and the stars. And this is called shamayim, as is written (in Devarim 4:19 וּפֶן תִּשָּׂא עֵינֶיךָ הַשָּׁמַיְמָה וְרָאִיתָ אֶת הַשֶּׁמֶשׁ וְאֶת הַיָּרֵחַ וְאֶת הַכּוֹכָבִים כֹּל צְבָא הַשָּׁמַיִם, 'And lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and see the sun, and the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven.' "

Rav Kanievsky also writes there another explanation. After citing the pasuk and Eruvin, that if it were in heaven you should have gone up after it; and if it were ‘beyond the sea’, you should have gone over the sea after it, he writes:

"And the Chazon Ish {?} said that this was via the Divine Name, as Rashi explains in Chagiga 14b, that four entered the pardes, meaning that they ascended to shamayim via the Divine Name. And across the sea, via ships. 


And it is difficult, for it is stated in Bava Metzia 94a
AND WHATEVER CAN BE FULFILLED EVENTUALLY etc. R. Tabla said in Rab's name: This is the view of R. Judah b. Tema. But the Sages say: Even if it is impossible to fulfil it eventually, and one stipulates it at the beginning, the stipulation is valid. For it has been taught: [If one says,] Here is thy divorce, on condition that thou ascendest to Heaven or descendest to the deep, on condition that thou swallowest a hundred cubit cane or crossest the great sea on foot; if the condition is fulfilled, the divorce is valid, but not otherwise.13  R. Judah b. Tema said: In such a case it is a [valid] divorce. R. Judah b. Tema stated a general rule: That which can never be fulfilled, and he [the husband] stipulates it at the beginning, it is only to repel her,14  and is valid.
which is a condition which is impossible to fulfill. (And there is what to answer.)


Further, there is so say that they can ask prophets and they can inform us what they are saying in Heaven regarding this or that halacha. Therefore it informs us that the Torah was given on earth, and that which they rule in the bet din below, this is what they are ruling in Heaven, as is stated in Bava Metzia 59b."

Thus, it either refers to outer space or to the spiritual heavens, and both need to be places one can physically or indirectly access. He could have referred to the Yerushalmi which has Alexander the Great ascend on high via griffin. Though the Yerushalmi does not give the explicit details we want, that Alexander met an angel in Heaven after ascending in this manner. For that, we need to know the non-Jewish accounts.

I don't know that in this gemara, Chazal (or specifically R' Avdimi bar Chama bar Dosa) expected that people would be able to ascend, either to the moon, or to the place of the angels, as a real expectation of what was possible. (Indeed, perhaps the aish up there in the sky would burn anything up; or perhaps the moon was entirely insubstantial, such that we would not expect to be able to land on the moon.)

The concern might have been more homiletic. In the pesukim, Moshe is telling the people that it is NOT in the heavens or over the sea, such that one could say objection of 'who shall ascend? Who will cross'. These can be treated as rhetorical questions in this counterfactual scenario. They would have objected that it is impossible, or just too difficult, to accomplish this, and so we have an excuse to not learn of the commandments and fulfill them. But one cannot lay out those objections, for Moshe has already brought the commandments to the people, such that it is in their mouths and in their hearts to fulfill it.

What R' Avdimi bar Chama bar Dosa does is take the rhetorical questions / objections and assume that, given such a scenario, it would be incumbent upon people to do this. For Hashem's commandments are so dear, and important. They would need to ask who would fetch them, even from Heaven or across the Sea. This highlights for us just how dear the mitzvos and words of Torah are, such that we must take extraordinary measures to learn and preserve them in our mouths and minds -- the mnemonic signs discussed immediately previous in the gemara in Eruvin. If so, within this homiletic message, this might be just for dramatic effect. One would need to take such extreme, indeed, impossible, measures, to ascend all the way to heaven. Even if it indeed deemed impossible by Chazal, it is an extreme statement that then has its dramatic and therefore homiletic effect.

Related to all of this, I have heard some people claim that in Tanach, and perhaps as understood by Chazal as well, the Shamayim and Rakia is a physical place -- the sky and the firmament, and that this physical Shamayim is understood as the abode of the angels. We clearly make this distinction nowadays. But in the Greek story about Alexander, it seems that there was no such distinction. Perhaps we can also point to young Abayei in Berachot 48a:
Rav Nachman said: A child who knows whom we bless counts for a zimun. Abayei and Rava were sitting before Rabba. Rabba asked: "Whom do we bless?" They said: "Rachmana" (Hashem, in Aramaic). "Where does He live?" Rava pointed to the roof. Abayei went outside and pointed to the sky. Rabba said: "Both of you will be rabbis."
This is against the Rambam, most probably. But perhaps Chazal disagreed with the Rambam, and felt that Hashem could be located in a specific place / abode. And, that that was the sky, shamayim, and not just a homonym.

Tuesday, June 21, 2011

Did Rashi sin in saying פרשה זו יפה נדרשת במדרש רבי תנחומא?

Summary: The Taz brings up a prohibition Rashi might have violated in this regard, and explains why it was not forbidden in this instance -- something to do with the nature of peshat and derash on this pasuk. I analyze the topic in greater detail, and think I have a better explanation.

Post: Rashi begins his commentary on parashat Korach as follows:

1. Korah the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi took [himself to one side] along with Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On the son of Peleth, descendants of Reuben.א. וַיִּקַּח קֹרַח בֶּן יִצְהָר בֶּן קְהָת בֶּן לֵוִי וְדָתָן וַאֲבִירָם בְּנֵי אֱלִיאָב וְאוֹן בֶּן פֶּלֶת בְּנֵי רְאוּבֵן:
And Korach took: This parsha is darshened will in the Midrash of Rabbi Tanchuma.ויקח קרח: פרשה זו יפה נדרשת במדרש רבי תנחומא:

He follows this up immediately with commentary on the actual substance of parshas Korach:

ויקח קרח: לקח את עצמו לצד אחד להיות נחלק מתוך העדה לעורר על הכהונה, וזהו שתרגם אונקלוס ואתפלג נחלק משאר העדה להחזיק במחלוקת, וכן (איוב טו, יב) מה יקחך לבך, לוקח אותך להפליגך משאר בני אדם. דבר אחר ויקח קרח משך ראשי סנהדראות שבהם בדברים, כמו שנאמר (במדבר כ, כה) קח את אהרן, (הושע יד, ג) קחו עמכם דברים:

The Taz is troubled by this. In his commentary on Rashi, Divrei David, he writes:

"This parasha is darshened well -- it appears to be difficult, for there is a prohibition in utilizing such language! For behold, Chazal said [Eruvin 64a; and here] that it is prohibited to say 'this halacha is good; this halacha is not good'. For one cannot say that specifically for saying both of them there is a prohibition to say. This is not so, for behold, 'this halacha is not good' one should prohibit by itself. Rather, perforce, this is what it means to say: Just as it is forbidden to say 'this halacha is not good', so is it forbidden to say 'this halacha is good', for from this it is implied that other halachot are not good, forfend! And if so, what does Rashi say 'this parasha...'?


And there is so say that here as well, there is an exclusion. For in other places, there are two paths -- one according to its peshat and the second according to the midrash. But here, there is only one path, for the midrash is the peshat, for there is no peshat here, but only the midrash is well darshened even according to its peshat, for there is no explanation on the word ויקח what he took, according to its peshat."

Before proceeding, a little biographical information about the Taz:
David ha-Levi Segal (c. 1586 – 20 February 1667), also known as the Turei Zahav (abbreviated Taz) after the title of his significant halakhic commentary on the Shulchan Aruch, was one of the greatest Polish rabbinical authorities...
Around 1641 he became rabbi of the old community of Ostrog, (or Ostroh), in Volhynia. There Segal established a famous yeshiva, and was soon recognized as one of the great halakhic authorities of his time. In Ostrog, Segal wrote a commentary on Joseph Caro's Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh De'ah), which he published in Lublin in 1646. This commentary, known as theTurei Zahav ("Rows of Gold"), was accepted as one of the highest authorities on Jewish law. Thereafter, Segal became known by the acronym of his work, the TaZ.
Thus, the Taz is a halachist, and so his random halachic concerns should probably be taken somewhat seriously. He also wrote a supercommentary on Rashi, Derech David, where he expresses his concerns about this Rashi.

I think I have a good response to this halachic concern, though my answer is different from his. Before proceeding further, I'd like to lay out a structure for analysis of this sugya, as a series of questions that I plan to answer systematically.
  1. Where is this gemara? What does it say, precisely?
  2. Is it brought down lehalacha by the Rif, Rosh, Rambam, Tur, Shulchan Aruch, or is it just a resurrected passing comment in the gemara which an acharon has now brought to prominence?
  3. Does Rashi indeed say this? When looking at the manuscripts of Rashi I have in my possession (in my source-roundup), is this comment consistently there?
  4. Assuming Rashi did indeed say this, how would I explain his intent? Why should he bother making such a comment?
  5. The analysis in (4) will likely differ from the analysis in the Taz. Does this save Rashi in a different way?
  6. What do I think of the Taz's explanation of Rashi and his saving of Rashi? Does it work out with Rashi's language, and the facts on the ground? Does Rashi really only say this about the single derasha  on ויקח קרח? Is there really no acceptable peshat here? Is the midrash here really peshat, to the exclusion of other places where Rashi channels midrash?
  7. Others in the conversation
I - The Gemara in Eruvin

I did my best to track down this gemara, and I believe that the Taz is referring to this gemara in Eruvin, 64a:
אמר ליה אביי לרב יוסף היו שם חמשה שכירו וה' לקיטו מהו אמר ליה אם אמרו שכירו ולקיטו להקל יאמרו שכירו ולקיטו להחמיר גופא אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל אפילו שכירו ואפי' לקיטו נותן עירובו ודיו אמר רב נחמן כמה מעליא הא שמעתא אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל שתה רביעית יין אל יורה אמר רב נחמן לא מעליא הא שמעתא דהא אנא כל כמה דלא שתינא רביעתא דחמרא לא צילא דעתאי אמר ליה רבא מאי טעמא אמר מר הכי האמר ר' אחא בר חנינא מאי דכתיב (משלי כט, ג) ורועה זונות יאבד הון כל האומר שמועה זו נאה וזו אינה נאה מאבד הונה של תורה אמר ליה הדרי בי
For the English, I will simply cite the Point by Point Summary:
(g) Question (Abaye): If there are five Sechirim or Lekitim [of a Nochri; Ra'avad - or of a Yisrael], must they all give to the Eruv (Rashba - must we rent from all of them) [as if it was their house]?
(h) Answer (Rav Yosef): The law of Sachir or Lakit is a leniency, so do not derive stringencies from it (we are lenient regarding Eruvin).
(i) (Rav Yehudah): It suffices if the Sachir or Lakit gives towards the Eruv.
(j) Rav Nachman: This is a superb teaching!
2) RULING WHEN INTOXICATED
(a) (Rav Yehudah): One who drinks a Revi'is of wine may not give Halachic rulings.
(b) Rav Nachman: This is not a good teaching - my mind is not clear until I drink a Revi'is!
1. Rava: It is not proper to say that a teaching is not good!
2. (R. Acha bar Chanina): "V'Ro'eh Zonos Ye'abed Hon" - if one says that some teachings are nice and others are not, he will lose the glory of Torah (forget his learning. Rashi - Zonos is like 'Zo Na'eh (this one is nice)'; Me'iri - he is attracted only to some teachings, like men find some women more attractive than others. Rashash - one may disapprove of teachings that oppose other teachings.)
3. Rav Nachman: I retract.
And Rashi writes there:

מאי טעמא אמר מר הכי - זו נאה וזו אינה נאה:
הונה - כבודה של תורה וסופה להשתכח ממנו:
רועה זונות - נוטריקון זו נאה וארענה ואעסוק בה כדי שתתקיים בידי:
הדרי בי - לא אוסיף עוד:
If this is indeed the only gemara that makes such a statement, then there are a few differences between it and what the Taz brought down, and perhaps those differences can provide us with an answer. First, it does not speak of saying that one הלכה is nice and another is not nice, but rather that one שמועה is nice and the other not nice. Perhaps this could refer to only a specific type of teaching. Second, the two examples brought down are approval or disapproval of halachot, so perhaps midrash aggada is different. We indeed see distinctions in accepting or rejecting midrash aggada from Chazal, in Shmuel Hanagid's Mevo HaTalmud. Third, maybe we can say like the Rashash, above, that given competing traditions, one can select one over the other.

While there is room from the gemara to argue with the Taz about whether saying that a tradition is nice is unacceptable, or only  the reverse, there is enough in the gemara to support the Taz's position. After all, Rav Nachman said both, and then retracted. True, the retraction was listed only after him taking a negative position, but it seems like the entire process of approval / disapproval was being frowned upon. Perhaps this is only when one is engaging in both positive and negative review, that an approval would carry such an implication.

I also don't know that we should read a prohibition, and issur, into this. It could just be rather frowned upon, hashkafically, with the derasha from Mishlei as a support to such disapproval.

II - The Rishonim

Is this gemara brought down lehalacha in halachic literature, or is the Taz resurrecting a position which had been ignored until his time?

Well, the Rif cites it as part of the discussion from the gemara:
Abaye said to Rav Yosef: What if there were five hired laborers or retainers {in the gentile's house, each of whom occupied a room in it, and one had forgotten to contribute his share in the eruv of the alley}?
He said to him: Even if they said the law of hired laborers and retainers to be lenient, do you think they spoke of hired laborers or retainers to be stringent?! {But rather, there is no problem.}

Gufa: {to return to the main text}
Rav Yehuda cited Shmuel: even his hired laborer or retainer may contribute on his {=the gentile's} behalf to the eruv, and it is sufficient.
Rav Nachman said: How excellent a ruling is this!

And Rav Yehuda cited Shmuel: One who has drunk a reviit of wine should not pray {our gemara: should not render a legal ruling}.
Rav Nachman said: This ruling is not excellent, for until I drink a reviit of wine, my mind is not clear.

Rava said to him {=Rav Nachman}: Why does Master speak in such a manner? Did not Rav Acha bar Chanina state: What is meant by what is written {Mishlei 29:3}:
ג אִישׁ-אֹהֵב חָכְמָה, יְשַׂמַּח אָבִיו;וְרֹעֶה זוֹנוֹת, יְאַבֶּד-הוֹן.3 Whoso loveth wisdom rejoiceth his father; but he that keepeth company with harlots wasteth his substance.

{where זוֹנוֹת is reread as zo naot = this is beautiful.}
Whoever says this {zo} ruling is beautiful {naeh} and this ruling is not beautiful, it is as if he loses the substance of Torah.
He {Rav Nachman} said: I withdraw.
The Rosh also brings it down. It could just be a less selective editing, but we can also take it as evidence that one indeed should not do this, lehalacha. However, looking on the daf of the gemara, in Ein Mishpat, Ner Mitzvah, there is no lettered footnote. That would strongly suggest that it does not appear in Rambam, Tur, or Shulchan Aruch. This might have been an oversight, but on the other hand, there is some element of resurrecting a position mentioned merely in passing in the gemara.

III - Does Rashi actually say this?

My earliest Ktav Yad of Rashi (I think), from Munich, 1233, indeed has this statement of Rashi. On the other hand, this statement follows a large mass of inserted material, as is the general derech of this particular manuscript. Perhaps one could assert that this statement, as well, is an insertion. Personally, I don't think it is an insertion, because as we shall see, it serves an important methodological function, tied closely to what  Rashi himself is doing here.

I did find one manuscript -- which I think is early, but I am not sure from precisely when -- in which this first comment of Rashi does not appear. Thus, we find in the following Ktav Yad:


See how the parsha starts and it jumps immediately to Rashi's second comment. This might be an indication that this first Rashi is a later insertion, and is not from Rashi's hand.

IV - Rashi's Intent

Yet, I do think that Rashi made this comment. And here is how I would explain it. We should look to the Mekoros of Rashi, either in Avraham Berliner's critical edition of Rashi, or in Mekorei Rashi in Mechokekei Yehuda.

What were Rashi's sources for the previous segment, at the end of parashat Shelach? From Berliner's Beur:

In other words, Rashi relies heavily of the Sifrei, and also on scattered gemaros in Sanhedrin and Menachos.

The beginning of parashat Korach represents a shift in where Rashi gets his midrashim:

There is this sudden shift in which Rashi draws all of his midrashim from Midrash Tanchuma. This continues throughout perek 16, continues through perek 17, and then finally, in perek 18, we see a shift back to the Sifrei:

Why does Rashi abandon the Sifrei for the span of two whole perakim? It turns out that Rashi did not abandon the Sifrei so much as the Sifrei abandoned him. That is, there is no Sifrei on these two perakim, but rather Sifrei on Korach begins in chapter 18. And at the first opportunity, on Bemidbar 18:1, Rashi resumes citing the Sifrei,

V - Saving Rashi from Sin

Now we can understand Rashi's remark of פרשה זו יפה נדרשת במדרש רבי תנחומא. He is indicating, for those interested, that he has shifted his source for midrashic material. And why does he do it? Not because he prefers the content of Tanchuma over Sifrei, but because there is content in Tanchuma but not in Sifrei. When he says יפה נדרשת, he does not mean to praise the content, but rather means that it is consistently darshened, on a pasuk by pasuk-basis. He is praising coverage. And I suppose instead he could have looked through Shas and found midrashic material, but it is easier to get a consistent read when you pull material from a single source.

If so, the Taz has no reason for concern, because that is not what Rashi meant!

VI - Considering Taz's Analysis

In my estimation, we are standing on fairly firm ground in our understanding of Rashi. But what about the Taz's explanation? Recall that he explained it as follows:
And there is so say that here as well, there is an exclusion. For in other places, there are two paths -- one according to its peshat and the second according to the midrash. But here, there is only one path, for the midrash is the peshat, for there is no peshat here, but only the midrash is well darshened even according to its peshat, for there is no explanation on the word ויקח what he took, according to its peshat."
Here is why I would disagree with it. There are actually quite a number of derashot of ויקח קרח, even in Tanchuma. Thus, for example:
ויקח אין ויקח אלא משיכת דברים רכים, שמשך כל גדולי ישראל והסנהדראות אחריו. 
and
ויקח קרח לקח טליתו והלך ליטול עצה מאשתו. 
See inside for others. And Ibn Ezra gives a peshat explanation of ויקח. And so can Ibn Caspi. And I can offer a peshat explanation of ויקח, that it is a null value, selecting all the participants in an action prior to the mention of the action, in ויקומו in the next pasuk. Still, Rashi might well argue and think the midrash he presents is peshat, and only that.

But another problem is how often Rashi channels midrashim. I would say it is greater than 80% of the time, and not always does he present it alongside a 'peshat'. If so, why is this place different from all other places, especially if Taz buys into the idea (as I expect he does) that Rashi is almost always saying 'peshat'?

And another problem is that Rashi does not say that this pasuk was darshened well in Tanchuma. He says this 'parsha'. This does not mean sidra, but certainly it means a good portion of the following text. So how can the Taz just speak about the single midrash on ויקח קרח as something that excludes a separate path of peshat and of derash?

Perhaps this is salvageable, but in light of a more straightforward explanation, based on the shift in Rashi's sources and the lack in Sifrei, I would prefer the explanation I offered.

VII - Others in the Conversation

There are many other meforshei Rashi engaged in this conversation. Just to give a taste, Rabbi Eliyahu Mizrachi writes that Rashi means that the midrash in Tanchuma is close to peshuto shel Mikra:

And Maharshal, in Yeriot Shlomo, interprets this interpretation of Mizrachi as compelled by that gemara in Eruvin. for otherwise it would be forbidden to say:

This is along the same lines as the Taz. And see Levush HaOrah who claims a different motivation for Rashi, but with a similar conclusion, that he means that it is derash close to peshat. And see what Maharsha says, and so on and so forth.

Friday, February 04, 2011

Eruv down in Forest Hills and Kew Gardens; The Kew Gardens Hills eruv is up!

Received via email from the rabbi of Etz Chaim:
Dear Friends,
 
I have received a communication from the Vaad HaRabbonim that the Eruv for Kew Gardens and Forest Hills is down for this Shabbos.
 
They do not yet know about our Eruv in Kew Gardens Hills, and suggest checking with YI of Queens Valley after 12 noon.  If I get more info, I will send it along.
 
Moshe Rosenberg
The phone number for the Kew Gardens Hills eruv is: (718) 263-3921

They don't know yet, but I will update if I get the chance.

Update: In the comment section, Ezzie writes that it is up in Kew Gardens Hills. Indeed, I called the eruv hotline, and they said that it was inspected and found to be intact.

Hooray!

UpdateNew York Hospital/Queens (Booth) reports its is also down.

Wednesday, August 11, 2010

Does Rashi reject the very *idea* of magical objects?

So I was reading through some of the divrei Torah at YBT. Here is the beginning of an interesting one, from Rabbi Reuven Mann:
The idea that objects possess supernatural powers is absolutely contrary to Torah. The Torah makes it clear that nature operates according to fixed laws. Thus, objects only possess the natural powers they are endowed with. Whenever something occurs outside the frame of natural law the only cause is the Divine Will, i.e., what we call Providence. In the war against Amalek when Moshe lifted his hands the Jews would prevail and when he lowered them they would falter. Yet Rashi asks, "can the hands of Moshe wage war?" So too in the case of the copper snake those bitten would gaze upon the snake and be healed. Would you say that the copper snake had a special power to heal? Here too Rashi asks, "Can a snake heal?" and continues to explain that when the Jews subordinated their hearts to G-d then He would cure them.The same is true regarding the hands of Moshe. From the question of Rashi we can clearly deduce that he rejected the notion of ascribing non-natural powers to physical objects. It is important to remember the Chizkiyahu destroyed the copper snake when the people began to attribute powers to it. The jar of manna and many other objects were hidden for the same reason.
And it continues. The examples given here which supposedly show that "the Torah makes it clear" instead are examples where Rashi's interpretation of the Torah appears to make it clear. These Rashis, in turn, are based on gemaras, which are indeed Torah she'baal peh. Even so, if other interpretations are available, and indeed, Rashi and the gemara had to go out of their way to explain it contrary to the simple meaning, that the Torah is not making it very clear. Other examples of the (written) Torah clearly demonstrating this would be in order.

As to this interpretation of Rashi, this avoidance of supernatural power rooted in physical objects need not necessarily reflect Rashi's motivation. Firstly, he is citing gemaras, so it might simply reflect the attitude of the particular speaker of that midrashic statement in the Mishna. One of the Rashis:

whoever is bitten: Even if a dog or a donkey bit him, he would suffer injury and steadily deteriorate, but a snake bite would kill quickly. That is why it says here [regarding other bites], “will look at it”-a mere glance. But regarding the snake bite it says “he would gaze”-“and whenever a snake bit [a man], he would gaze” (verse 9), for the snake bite would not heal unless one gazed at it [the copper snake] intently (Yer. R.H. 3:9). Our Rabbis said, Does a snake cause death or life? However, when Israel looked heavenward and subjected their hearts to their Father in heaven, they would be healed, but if not, they would waste away. — [R.H. 29a]כל הנשוך: אפילו כלב או חמור נושכו היה נזוק ומתנונה והולך, אלא שנשיכת הנחש ממהרת להמית, לכך נאמר כאן וראה אותו ראיה בעלמא, ובנשיכת הנחש נאמר והביט, והיה אם נשך הנחש את איש והביט וגו', שלא היה ממהר נשוך הנחש להתרפאות אלא אם כן מביט בו בכוונה. ואמרו רבותינו וכי נחש ממית או מחיה, אלא בזמן שהיו ישראל מסתכלין כלפי מעלה ומשעבדין את לבם לאביהם שבשמים היו מתרפאים, ואם לאו היו נמוקים:

That Mishna, in Rosh Hashana 29a:
מתני  (שמות יז, יא) והיה כאשר ירים משה ידו וגבר ישראל וגו' וכי ידיו של משה עושות מלחמה או שוברות מלחמה אלא לומר לך כל זמן שהיו ישראל מסתכלין כלפי מעלה ומשעבדין את לבם לאביהם שבשמים היו מתגברים ואם לאו היו נופלים כיוצא בדבר אתה אומר  (במדבר כא, ח) עשה לך שרף ושים אותו על נס והיה כל הנשוך וראה אותו וחי וכי נחש ממית או נחש מחיה אלא בזמן שישראל מסתכלין כלפי מעלה ומשעבדין את לבם לאביהם שבשמים היו מתרפאין ואם לאו היו נימוקים חרש שוטה וקטן אין מוציאין את הרבים ידי חובתן זה הכלל כל שאינו מחוייב בדבר אינו מוציא את הרבים ידי חובתן:
Even if the author of the Mishna did intend it this way, this does not mean that other members of Chazal did not argue.

For example, here is a gemara and a set of Rashis which appear to solidly indicate that some members of Chazal, and Rashi, did believe in objects imbued with magical powers. From Eruvin 64b:

אמר מר ואין מעבירין על האוכלין אמר רבי יוחנן משום רבי שמעון בן יוחאי לא שנו אלא בדורות הראשונים שאין בנות ישראל פרוצות בכשפים אבל בדורות האחרונים שבנות ישראל פרוצות בכשפים מעבירין תנא שלימין מעבירין פתיתין אין מעבירין אמר ליה רב אסי לרב אשי ואפתיתין לא עבדן והכתיב  (יחזקאל יג, יט) ותחללנה אותי אל עמי בשעלי שעורים ובפתותי לחם דשקלי באגרייהו
and Rashi writes:


פתיתין אין מעבירין עליהן - אלא נוטלין אותן דליכא למיחש לכשפים:
ואפתיתין לא עבדן - כשפים:
דשקלן באגרייהו - פתיתי לחם לעשות כשפים מדברים אחרים והכי קאמר נביא בשביל פיתותי לחם שנותנים לכן בשכרכן חיללתן את שמי בתוך עמי שהייתן עושות בהן כשפים לנביאי הבעל להטעות את עמי:
It seems pretty straightforward that the Tannaim, Amoraim, and Rashi, did believe that the bread was imbued with some sort of power due to witchcraft. (Yes, one can argue that the bread was poisoned as a result of the physical acts of witchcraft, but that does not seem to be the straightforward implication.)

Even from the next perek in sefer Bamidbar, in parashat Balak, it seems that Rashi believed that there was such a thing as magic objects:


7. So the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian went, with magic charms in their hands, and they came to Balaam and conveyed Balak's message to him.ז. וַיֵּלְכוּ זִקְנֵי מוֹאָב וְזִקְנֵי מִדְיָן וּקְסָמִים בְּיָדָם וַיָּבֹאוּ אֶל בִּלְעָם וַיְדַבְּרוּ אֵלָיו דִּבְרֵי בָלָק:
with magic charms in their hands: All types of charms, so he could not say,“I don’t have my tools with me.” Another interpretation: The elders of Midian took this omen (קֶסֶם) with them, saying, “If he comes with us this time, there is something to him, but if he pushes us off, he is useless.” Thus, when he said to them, “Lodge here for the night” (verse 8), they said, “He is hopeless” ; so they left him and went away, as it says, “The Moabite nobles stayed with Balaam” (ibid.), but the Midianite elders left. — [Mid. Tanchuma Balak 5, Num. Rabbah 20:8]וקסמים בידם: כל מיני קסמים, שלא יאמר אין כלי תשמישי עמי. דבר אחר קסם זה נטלו בידם זקני מדין, אמרו אם יבא עמנו בפעם הזאת יש בו ממש, ואם ידחנו אין בו תועלת, לפיכך כשאמר להם לינו פה הלילה, אמרו אין בו תקוה, הניחוהו והלכו להם, שנאמר וישבו שרי מואב עם בלעם, אבל זקני מדין הלכו להם:

(Yes, one could say that these tools were only within their own false beliefs, but this is not the straightforward implication.)

There is also the pasuk, and Rashi, on Vaera:


11. [Then,] Pharaoh too summoned the wise men and the magicians, and the necromancers of Egypt also did likewise with their magic.יא. וַיִּקְרָא גַּם פַּרְעֹה לַחֲכָמִים וְלַמְכַשְּׁפִים וַיַּעֲשׂוּ גַם הֵם חַרְטֻמֵּי מִצְרַיִם בְּלַהֲטֵיהֶם כֵּן:
with their magic: Heb. בְּלַהִטֵיהֶם [Onkelos renders בְּלַחֲשֵהון], [meaning] with their incantations. It [the word בְּלַהִטֵיהֶם has no similarity in the [rest of] Scripture. It may, however, be compared to “the blade of (לַהַט) the revolving sword” (Gen. 3:24), which seemed to be revolving because of a magic spell.בלהטיהם: בלחשיהון ואין לו דמיון במקרא, ויש לדמות לו (בראשית ג כב) להט החרב המתהפכת, דומה שהיא מתהפכת על ידי לחש:


Rashi understands that they enchanted their objects, namely their staffs, with their incantations, and the staffs became snakes.

What, then, shall we make of that Rashi about the non-magic and Moshe's non-magic hands? Either he is relying on and simply repeating a maamar Chazal which maintained that, or else there is something deeper than just disbelief in magic objects.

Perhaps the reason it appears in that Mishna, in context of blowing the shofar, is that one should not think that merely hearing the shofar (the previous Mishna had where someone heard and did not recognize, yet fulfilled) has the desired spiritual impact. It is not some magic ritual, like the (non-magic chatzotzrot). Rather, it is supposed to move people to teshuva. So too the healing power of the snake and the winning of the war. Not that there is (necessarily) no such thing as magical objects, but that it does not make good sense theologically for Hashem to relate to klal Yisrael in this way in each of these two instances. (And this in an important point to make in light of how they turned the snake into an idol, Nechushtan.) Moshe was not performing a mere magic trick with his hands; and Hashem was not commanding Moshe to construct a magic talisman to save the Israelites from snake bites. This was rather a spiritual battle, and the snakes were punishment for a spiritual failing. And furthermore, in each case the point is that the power was put into the hands of each Israelite himself.

If there is a strong theological point here being made, and it is one which is tangential to the existence or non-existence of magical talismans, then I don't believe that we can conclusively prove the inefficacy of magical talismans from the sources cited. Especially if there are other sources -- in Rashi and Chazal -- which quite strongly appear to state otherwise.

Rabbi Mann ends the devar Torah with:
Finally it is not our burden to disprove an idea which is contrary to Torah and common sense understanding of Torah. It is the burden of the person asserting a notion which runs contrary to the basic principals of Torah to demonstrate through authoritative and unimpeachable sources that his strange interpretation is authentic.
I don't know whether my sources are authoritative and unimpeachable. It probably depends on who is considering the question, and whether he will consider my reading of Rashi to be a "strange interpretation". But even if I haven't proven this of Rashi -- which I believe I have -- there are certainly others, including great talmidei chachamim, who believed that certain objects had magical properties. For one random example, the magical lion talisman discussed by Abba Mari and the Rashba, both of whom assumed its efficacy. (See here, page 4.)

The rationalist position has not historically been the only position taken by great rabbis, and we should not pretend otherwise. Even if this is the only way to delegitimize magic in the eyes of the hamon am, who will see such sources and mistakenly think that it is therefore a matter of legitimate dispute, or one decided in the "mystical" direction, rather than something empirically determinable.

That said, of course there is no such thing as magic.

Sunday, July 04, 2010

Demonic messages between Sura and Pumbedita

I would like to consider, once again, the gemara in Eruvin about Yosef Sheida from two perspectives -- my own (last discussed here), and that of Meiri. In both instances, there are new facets.

First, the gemara in Eruvin which I claim indicates literal belief in sheidim. I should point out that I strongly suspect that this gemara is not from the Amoraim but from the Rabanan Sovorai, and so this particular gemara need not indicate that Chazal themselves believed in literal demons.

The gemara reads as follows. Eruvin 43a:

תא שמע הני שב שמעתא דאיתאמרן בצפר' בשבתא קמיה דרב חסדא בסורא בהדי פניא בשבתא קמיה דרבא בפומבדיתא מאן אמרינהו לאו אליהו אמרינהו אלמא אין תחומין למעלה מעשרה לא דלמא יוסף שידא אמרינהו
Or, from the Point by Point Summary:

(f) Answer #3: Seven teachings were said Shabbos morning in front of Rav Chisda in Sura, and Shabbos afternoon in front of Rabah in Pumbadisa [which is outside the Techum of Sura; surely, the same person said them]!
1. Suggestion: Eliyahu said them (he flew above 10 from Sura to Pumbadisa) - this shows that Techumim does not apply above 10! Me'iri, Chasam Sofer 6:98
(g) Rejection: Perhaps they were said by a certain Shed [that does not observe Shabbos]. 
I would emend this to not just "a certain Shed" by Yosef the Shed, the same one who spoke to Rav Yosef and Rav Papa elsewhere; and that he does not observe Shabbos is Rashi's explanation.


There are two reasons to leap to the assumption that a magical or mystical creature is responsible. First, how are you to travel higher than 10 handbreadths the entire distance from Sura to Pumpedita? It must be via flight, which Eliyahu haNavi could accomplish. But once we assume it is someone violating the Shabbos, why assume a sheid, a demon, particularly? Why not any human being, be it a non-Jew or any irreligious Jew?

Thus, the second reason. Sura is located about 6 km from al-Hira, according to a teshuva from Rav Natronai Gaon. Its longitude and latitude coordinates are: 31°53′N 44°27′E. Here is an image of Sura, in modern-day Iraq:






Meanwhile, Pumpedita was located in what is modern-day Fallujah. Its coordinates are: 33°21′04″N 43°47′10″E. And here is an image of it, placed in Iraq:
They seem pretty close, but maps can be deceiving. Just how far away are they from one another? Using the FCC's distance calculator:

    Distance between

N Latitude 31 53 0.00, E Longitude 44 27 0.00 (Point 1)


and N Latitude 33 21 4.00, E Longitude 43 47 10.00 (Point 2)

174.628 kilometers; 108.509 miles

Azimuth from point 1 to point 2 = 339.32°
Azimuth from point 2 to point 1 = 158.96°

And that is as the crow flies! Can a normal human walk, or run, 108.509 miles from Shabbos morning to afternoon?! Of course, there are other possibilities. For example, by horse, though this would certainly violate Shabbos. According to one website:
Horses speed varies with their stride length, body build, and other factors, but here is a basic idea of how fast-- in miles per hour-- horses move at their various gaits:

Walk: Roughly 3-4 MPH. A pleasure show horse can go as slow as 2 mph. Gaited horses-- who do not trot-- can do a 'running walk' as fast as 15 mph.

Trot: The trot is roughly 8-10 MPH. Again, a shorter striding horse could trot slower, and a horse with a long stride could move faster.
Canter/Lope: 10-17 MPH.
Gallop: This depends on the horse's condition and athletic ability. Some horses are not built to run fast an may only do a fast canter at their best; however, the gallop is about 30 mph. Thoroughbreds, which are bred for running distance but not speed, have been clocked at over 40 MPH. Quarter horses, bred and raced for short distances at speed, can reach 50 MPH in short bursts according to the AQHA's website.
So a thoroughbred, running at full gallop, for three hours could make the trip. But how long can a horse maintain this full gallop? According to another horse site:
How long can a horse sustain a gallop? The distance a horse can maintain a gallop depends on their build and physical fitness. A well conditioned horse can easily maintain a gallop for a mile to a mile and a half. At two to two and a half miles most horses will feel fatigued. Lighter built horses (Arabians and Thoroughbreds) can maintain a gallop over longer distances than heavier horses (Draft or Quarter Horse type), and horses with longer strides can travel longer distances with less effort. 
A horse is built to cover many miles in one day, but not at a gallop. A horse can cover more ground, faster, if kept consistently at a trot. While a horse may be exhausted after a three mile gallop, that same horse could trot, with a few walk breaks, 15 miles without extraordinary strain. 
Most people assume the Pony Express riders galloped their entire route. In fact, the speed of a pony express rider averages out to 10 miles per hour- meaning they spent most of their time alternating between a trot (about 8-9 mph) and a canter (12-13mph). The Pony Express riders switched to fresh horses every 10-15 miles. 
So we would not expect one horse to make this trip, or at full gallop. Maybe if the person switched horses every two or three miles, but that would involve a lot of horses. I suppose at an average between a trot and canter, that is an average of 10 mph, and switching horses about ten times, one could make it in 11 hours. On a long Shabbos, this might be just possible. It is still quite an ordeal, and thus somewhat farfetched.

Another possibility recommends itself by examining the map. Both Sura and Pumpedisa are located on the river. (Indeed, Pum-Bedita means "at the mouth of the Bedita river, which is a stream of the Euphrates.) Which way does the water flow in the Euphrates? In a south-easterly direction. Since Pumpedita is northwest of Sura, and the message came from Sura, this would mean moving upstream, against the current. But according to this book, Ebalitica, in discussing the Euphrates river and in general, in Old Babylonian Times, speed upstream by boat or by foot was about 25 to 30 airline km / day, which falls far short of the required 174 km.

Now, that was much earlier, in Old Babylonian times. Perhaps by Talmudic times, a boat could make this 108.5 mile jouney on a Shabbos. Indeed, a boat is one of the subjects under discussion in the gemara.

Regardless, I think the extreme distance and thus fast travel necessitated Eliyahu Hanavi, or else a demon, in the thought of the gemara.

In my earlier post I considered the possibility that Yosef Sheda was a human expert on demons. I would now say that I regard this as unlikely, based on the wording in Pesachim:
אמר רב פפא אמר לי יוסף שידא בתרי קטלינן בארבעה לא קטלינן בארבעה מזקינן בתרי בין בשוגג בין במזיד בארבעה במזיד אין בשוגג לא
Or in English:
Rav Papa: Yosef the Shed told me that Shedim kill on account of two (e.g. cups); they damage on account of four, but they do not kill;
1. They strike on account of two whether it was Shogeg or Mezid; they damage on account of four only if it was Mezid.
From the wording of קטלינן, and מזקינן, "we kill" and "we damage", it rather seems that Yosef Sheda himself is a sheid.

Back to the gemara in Eruvin, given the astounding speed required to travel this great distance, I would regard the reference to Eliyahu Hanavi in the gemara as absolutely literal. And as such, he is traveling by flying very very quickly, higher than 10 tefachim. And if Eliyahu HaNavi was intended absolutely literally, then I would guess that Yosef Sheda was also intended absolutely literally, but that since Yosef is a sheid and not a Jew, since he is not a human being, as Rashi writes, he does not keep the Shabbos.

An allegorical approach seems far-fetched to me, because if Eliyahu Hanavi is supposed to represent, e.g., a deep spiritual realization, while  Yosef Sheda, e.g., represents the Yetzer Hara or some such idea, why in the former case would it be subject to the laws of Shabbos, such that we can derive laws of techum? And in the latter case, how is this allegorical meaning to convey a message from one place to another? In other words, there are aspects of the gemara itself that seem to require a literalness to Eliyahu haNavi and Yosef Sheda.

It is of course always possible to kvetch any gemara, given enough brilliance, time and effort. Still, I prefer to take a text-internal approach. Ignore any hashkafic repercussions. What in the gemara itself indicates the most likely way to interpret this? And that we are drawing halachic repercussions from a discussion about a real-life incident where diyukim are made from rather practical considerations of where the path of travel must have been, I would conclude that the most likely interpretation is a literal one.

Once we know this, there are two possibilities. Either Chazal (in this gemara) are right and we are wrong about the reality of sheidim, or the reverse.

Meanwhile, the Meiri does not believe that demons are real, and he has a running commentary on the gemara. How does he interpret the gemara?

Well, in terms of how to travel higher than 10 tefachim off the ground, Meiri notes in the beginning of the gemara:
בעי רב חנניא יש תחומין למעלה מעשרה או אין תחומין למעלה מעשרה עמוד גבוה עשרה ורחב ארבעה לא תיבעי לך דארעא סמיכתא היא כי תיבעי לך בעמוד גבוה עשרה ואינו רחב ארבעה אי נמי דקאזיל בקפיצה לישנא אחרינא בספינה מאי
We are not discussing land higher than 10 tefachim but wider than 4, for this is considered ground. Rather, it is higher than 10 but very narrow, narrower than 4. Alternatively, בקפיצה. This means, according to Meiri, either via repeated jumping or some תחבולה, trick, ruse, strategem. Alternatively, by boat (where the boat is 10 tefachim off the riverbed).

How does he explain Eliyahu Hanavi? As follows:

ובאו ללמדה משב שמעתא הנזכרות (בראש בפרק) [בר"פ] אלו
טרפות דאיתמר בצפרא לקמיה דרב חסדא בסורא ובאותו היום
בעצמו נאמרו לרבה בפום בדיתא ויש שם יתר מן התתום אף
על ידי עירוב ואם כן מל כרחך בשהלך המגיד למעלה מעשרה
והמשילו [לאליהו] על דמיון תנועת העופפות . ולמדנו מכל מקום
שכל למעלה מעשרה מהלך כמו שירצה . ותירץ לו דרך צחות
דלמא יוסף שידא . פרשו בו גדולי הרבנים שאינו משמר שבת .

Thus, it is not Eliyahu HaNavi, but they only used him by way of comparison, that it was someone traveling over 10 tefachim, in a way similar to Eliyahu Hanavi who would fly. And by Yosef Sheda, he does not say that it means a sheid, but just that various meforshim say that this Yosef Sheda did not keep Shabbos. Perhaps he maintains that this is a human named Yosef Sheda, or a parallel to Yosef Sheda but any individual who does not keep Shabbos. He is unfortunately not explicit on this point, but I do believe he is explaining why one need not resort to belief in demons.

In terms of whether I think it is plausible, while more plausible than an allegorical interpretation, I don't find it more plausible than the literal. After all, later on in the same gemara they discuss how Mashiach cannot come on Shabbos, and mention Eliyahu Hanavi coming the day before. It is a bit strange for the former to be non-literal and the latter to be literal. And if simply a human, this does not account for the great speed from one place to the other. And it is difficult to say that there is a 100+ mile high and narrow land-ridge from Sura to Pumpedisa, over which someone ran at great speed. I suppose we can salvage this by saying that this was travel by boat, but I would really have expected the gemara to say simply that the travel was by boat. Further, Eliyahu Hanavi and Yosef Sheda (based on that other gemara I mentioned) are mythical persons/demons. That the gemara chooses these two in particular is strange, and would indicate to me a literal approach.

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