Showing posts with label Steven Martins. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Steven Martins. Show all posts

Wednesday, 29 June 2016

Luis Dizon's "Only Conclusion" on Genesis 1:26 Discussed


Luis Dizon contends Genesis 1:26 can only be concluded as a reference to plurality of persons in the being of God (with a strong intimation this plurality is the 3-self Trinity belief). Here's his conclusion with the assistance of Gleason Archer:

It is also important to note that the Trinity does not occur exclusively in the New Testament, but can be traced back to the Jewish scriptures (the Old Testament, which came centuries before Christianity). Several times in these scriptures, God speaks in the plural. A prominent example of this is close to the beginning of the Bible, where God says, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness...” (Gen 1:26, cf. 3:22, 11:7). It also appears in the book of the Jewish prophet Isaiah. Here, God asks, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us” (Isa 6:8)? The common Muslim argument when faced with these verses is that God is using the plural of majesty, which is a custom in which a royal figure speaks in the plural. Muslims argue that since Allah frequently speaks this way in the Qur’an,141 then the same must be the case in the Old Testament. However, this explanation is anachronistic, because the plural of majesty is not used anywhere in the Old Testament. In fact, the concept did not even exist until after the Old Testament was completed. As biblical scholar Gleason Archer notes:


This first person plural can hardly be a mere editorial or royal plural that refers to the speaker alone, for no such usage is demonstrable anywhere else in biblical Hebrew. Therefore, we must face the question of who are included in this “us” and “our.” It could hardly include the angels in consultation with God, for nowhere is it ever stated that man was created in the image of angels, only of God. Verse 27 then affirms: “and God [‘elohim]created man in His own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female He created them” (NASB). God—the same God who spoke of Himself in the plural--now states that He created man in His image. In other words, the plural equals the singular. This can only be understood in terms of the Trinitarian nature of God. The one true God subsists in three Persons, Persons who are able to confer with one another and carry their plans into action together—without ceasing to be one God.142

On the basis of this information, the only conclusion we can come to is that the passages where God speaks in the first person plural demonstrate a plurality of persons within the being of God.


Problems raised for Luis Dizon and Gleason Archer

1. There are other Christians with differing interpretations and thus do not share Luis Dizon's view that an idea of plurality of personhood is the "only conclusion" nor Gleason Archer's appeal to the Trinity belief (which ironically is anachronistic in itself!)

2. Plurality doesn't necessarily mean 3. As we know the plurality of 3 did not become recognised until at least 381 CE. For those wondering why not 325 CE? "The Nicene Council only concluded that the Father and Son are ontologically one: it did not include the Holy Spirit in the co-substantial relationship supposedly obtaining between the Father and Son" [Edgar G Foster]

3. The suggestion there's no other examples of a Majestic Plural in the Hebrew scriptures may well be inaccurate - see the discussion on this below. In any case, why would an absence of a "royal we" used by a king in the Hebrew scriptures demarcate the absence of such a usage in Hebrew all together? It wouldn't. An absence of evidence is not absence of evidence. Luis Dizon is committing a logical fallacy; argument from ignorance.

4. Confusion for 14 centuries. This point of confusion is a philosophical headache for Trinitarian apologists. 1 Cor 14:33 states "for God is not the author of confusion" yet Luis' conclusion would imply there was confusion for 14 centuries (evangelical Christians believe Genesis was written 1400 years ago). In fact the duration of confusion would be greater still as the Trinity was developed from the 4th century onwards so the implication in the Trinitarian Christian worldview is that God left people in confusion about Him and Genesis 1:26 for 18 centuries!

Thus all those faithful believers and Prophets, including Moses who is traditionally considered to be the author of Genesis amongst evangelical, were all left in confusion concerning this supposed plurality being taught in Genesis 1:26!

CAN YOU NOT SEE THE PROBLEM HERE?

Let's drive this problem home further still. In Exodus 33:11, it is taught Moses had the Lord speak to him face to face as one speaks to his friend. Despite this, the Trinitarian narrative contends Moses did not know about true the nature of God; that's to say he had a deficient understanding of God because he was unaware of the Trinity belief.

Isaiah 41:8 describes "Abraham as God's friend "But you, Israel, My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, Descendant of Abraham My friend," yet Luis' theory would have us believe Abraham, too, had a deficient understanding of God as the Trinity, according to the evangelical narrative was not revealed during Abraham's time.

Do Luis and others who argue for the Trinity in Genesis 1:26 not see the problems that come with such assertions?

Let's concentrate on providing some divergent views on Genesis 1:26 to show Luis' view that it's the "only conclusion" one can arrive at to be baseless:

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges o Genesis 1:26

Commentary from the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges surveys a number of explanations put forward over the years for "let us make" in Gen 1:26. Interestingly, the Trinity explanation is considered untenable:

Until recently, the traditional Christian interpretation has seen in the 1st pers. plur. a reference to the Three Persons of the Blessed Trinity. The requirements of a sound historical exegesis render this view untenable: for it would read into the Book of Genesis the religious teaching which is based upon the Revelation of the New Testament.

At the culmination of the list of various explanations the commentary concludes "The two last explanations appear to be the most probable". The last two being:

1. Use of the Plural of Deliberation
2. The old Jewish explanation that God is addressing the inhabitants of heaven

Dr Michael Heiser on Genesis 1:26 and the name Elohim

Michael Heiser gives his explanation, which differs and agrees with the more common:

(27) So God created (the verb is SINGULAR) man in his own (a third masculine SINGULAR suffix in Hebrew) image, in the image of God - we know this is singular as well from context - the preceding suffix tells us he created (the verb is SINGULAR) him; male and female he created (the verb is SINGULAR) them.

Conclusion – from the TEXT:
God announced to his council his idea to create mankind (“hey, guys, let's do this!” – a sort of exhortational declaration), then HE (and he alone, by virtue of the GRAMMAR) created humankind in HIS own image (not theirs).


He also explains the history of the name Elohim which does away with the idea that Elohim refers to a plurality in personhood:

It is of course true that "elohim" is MORPHOLOGICALLY plural (morphology refers to the construction or "shape" of a word). The - im ending of elohim makes the noun plural. As Psalm 82 (see above) tells us, elohim CAN be plural in the Hebrew Bible. The same psalm, though, also has elohim as a contextually clear SINGULAR (the morphologically plural word came to be used as a proper name for a singular deity).

NIV Study Bible and Liberty University on Genesis 1:26

Rabbi Tovia Singer offers a list of authorities for evangelicals who do not espouse such conclusions about the Trinity being in Genesis 1:26. His list includes Liberty University's commentary on the Bible, NIV Study Bible amongst others. You can check this for yourself. Here's a snippet which shows another Christian authority siding with one the traditional Jewish views on Genesis 1:26 rather than what Luis Dizon and Gleason Archer contend:

Yet, the NIV Study Bible also confirms in its commentary on Genesis 1:26,
Us… Our… Our. God speaks as the Creator-king, announcing His crowning work to the members of His heavenly court

Edgar G Foster on Genesis 1:26

Edgar G Foster discusses this in his summary of Alan J. Hauser's views on Gen 1:26, which militates against the Luis Dizon's "only conclusion"

Hauser expands on this argument. He does not think that the use of the Elohim in Genesis 1:26 proves that Genesis teaches God's triunity. One reason that Hauser concludes this has to do with the Hebrew word Elohim. Granted, Elohim is morphologically plural as are "us" and "our." But these words, while they might seem to indicate plurality, definitely do not suggest triunity. It must also be kept in mind that in Hebrew it is common for the plural noun to cause the verb to be plural (Cf. Genesis 20:13, 35:7). E.A Speiser therefore renders Genesis 1:26 as follows: "The God said, 'I will make man in my image, after my likeness.'"

In the same piece, Foster also cites Charles Ryrie. Ryrie talks about the use of plural pronouns with relation to God; he offers a striking observation in that there is no limitation to indicate a plurality is only three (i.e. the Trinity). Problem. In addition, from Tovia Singer's survey we see Ryrie considers Genesis 1:26 to be the Plural of Majesty, thus he too disagrees with Luis Dizon's "only conclusion" hypothesis.

Plural of Majesty

Gleason Archer, as Luis Dizon mentions, believes there's no other use of plural of majesty in the OT. Now, this is not a major point of contention but from Jason Dulle it appears there may be some candidates for the use of the royal plural elsewhere in the Hebrew scriptures. Dulle gives possible examples from Ezra and Daniel

The second theory is that the plural pronouns are used as a "majestic plural." This type of language was typically used by royalty, but not exclusively. Biblical examples include Daniel's statement to Nebuchadnezzar, "We will tell the interpretation thereof before the king" (Daniel 2:36). Daniel, however, was the only one who gave the king the interpretation of his dream. King Artaxerxes wrote in a letter, "The letter which ye sent unto us hath been plainly read before me" (Ezra 4:18). The letter was sent to Artaxerxes alone (Ezra 4:11), yet he said it was sent to "us," and was read before "me." Clearly the letter was only sent to, and read to Artaxerxes. When Artaxerxes penned another letter to Ezra he used the first person singular pronoun "I" in one place and the first person plural pronoun "we" in another (Ezra 7:13, 24).

I'd be interested in knowing people's thoughts on these verses. I would like to reiterate, this is not the main thrust of my article, please do not allow this side piece to detract from the points above.

Conclusion

It is my hope this piece helps to give young Christian apologists and those who follow Trinitarian Christian apologetics some pause for thought.

Dale Tuggy considers the arguments for the Trinity in the Old Testament to be "crummy arguments". He's taken aback by evangelicals, who should know better, arguing for this position. In this video I interspersed clips of Tuggy with an evangelist - RZIM'S Nabeel Qureshi - discussing various standard Trinitarian contentions based on the Old Testament.

I'd appeal to Luis and others who may have been exposed to Trinitarian Christian contentions based on the OT like the one discussed in this piece to avail themselves of this video.



Tuesday, 17 March 2015

Reverend Steven Martins on the History of Mecca


Reverend Steven Martins who recently toiled in a debate with Ijaz Ahmad of Calling Christians is refuted here again. One wonders as to the type of out-dated training and apologetic scripts Christian organisations such as RZIM are equipping their apologists with.



Rebuking Rev. Steven Martins of Evangelium & Apologia Ministries - 'Western Values'

RZIM
Rev. Steven Martins is linked to a lady called Cindy Martins. I don't know if they are related or married or simply just colleagues. However, a point of interest here is Cindy Martins holds an apologetics certificate from the Ravi Zacharias International Ministries Academy.

I'm not making any claims here - I don't know of Cindy Martin's work but Steven Martin's work, (from the little I've seen of it) is superficial and unimpressive. It will be prudent just to know that Dr Nabeel Qureshi is part of this organisation (RZIM) and Dr Nabeel has proven himself, time and time again to be superficial and lacking in intellectual honesty, see the Nabeel Qureshi section.

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Thursday, 12 February 2015

Tackling Christian Apologetics on Polygamy (Polygyny) in the Bible and the Quran


We've seen Mark Henkel's presentation and arguments for polygamy in the Bible. There's nothing wrong with polygyny. Muslims should not worry about any criticism on this front. Polygyny is something that is allowed in Islam. It's not a must, so if somebody feels inclined to marrying only one woman - that's fine. The vast majority of Muslims only marry one woman.

However, here we see spurious Christian apologetics from Steven Martins which are easily refuted.

Refuting Reverend Steven Martins of Nicene International Ministries: Polygamy in the Bible and Quran
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If video does not play, please see: http://youtu.be/JS2bf-0V3aQ

 
It must be said, as women do outnumber men in the world, polygyny is a solution to this problem. Imagine a warring situation in a patriarchal society in Africa where the majority of men have been killed due to warfare and thus women vastly outnumber men in this society. Would it be reasonable to prevent this community from polygyny? Of course not. That would be an injustice on the women as they would be deprived of having their own families, fulfilling their natural desires and gaining economic security as well as the physical protection in that troubled community.
 
Steven is the executive director, lead-Evangelist and Apologist of E&AM, specializing in the proclamation and defense of the Christian faith, and training the Church to fulfill its mandate. He was born in Toronto, Canada and comes from a Hispanic and Portuguese culture. He is a York University graduate with a Bachelor of Human Resource Management, working towards a Masters in Christian Apologetics at Veritas Evangelical Seminary, teaches Hermeneutics at the Ontario Bible Institute, holds two certificates in evangelism, along with apologetic training from RZIM Canada. Steven is also ordained with the Canadian Christian Ministers Federation.
 

Thursday, 5 February 2015

Christian apologetics to Muslims, more women in Hell Hadith


Christian apologetics organisations are doing a disservice by presenting their flocks with the standard Christian apologetics around Hadith mentioning the majority of the dwellers of Hell would be women.

Apart from not telling their flocks that there's another Hadith showing that women would outnumber men in Paradise, the Christian apologetics organisations misuse and misunderstand the Hadith they use.

At the end of the day, they pass on intellectual dishonesty - knowingly or unknowingly.

Here we see Reverend Steven Martins of EAM presenting the Hadith - it appears Reverend Steven Martins is a victim of intellectual dishonesty at the hands of those who taught him Christian apologetics in relation to Muslims.



If video does not play, please see:
http://youtu.be/HEkxgoJYnB0

Waqar Akbar Cheema of the Islamic Center for Research and Academics has discussed the Hadith here:

Do women form majority in the hell?

Whether you are a Christian or Muslim, it's important to avail yourself of these points as superficial and intellectually dishonest Christian apologetics are being  circulated both offline and online.

Here are a few take-home points from Cheema's article:

Women don't go to Hell for simply being women.

In the Hadith mentioned by Christians, the Prophet stated only what he had seen during his Miraculous Journey which is not bound to remain the same for ever.

Other traditions plainly establish that in the Paradise women will be much larger in number compared to men

Rebuking Rev. Steven Martins of Evangelium & Apologia Ministries - 'Western Values'

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Learn about Islam

Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk
 

Tuesday, 3 February 2015

Rebuking Rev. Steven Martins of Evangelium & Apologia Ministries - 'Western Values'


The motif of the European knight/gentleman rescuing the oppressed oriental maiden from her harem prison remains a well-watered one - Dr Jonathan AC Brown

Christian apologists often present superficial arguments and make statements of a superficial nature. Reverend Steven Richard Martins is a Christian apologist for an organisation based in Canada.

This superficial and irresponsible statement-making fuels Islamophobia. Christian apologists with their regurgitated superficial apologetics spiels about Islam simply goes towards fuelling Islamophobia. Is that really what Christian apologists are being trained to do - dehumanize and insult Muslims?

Rather than talking about the general problem of ill-treatment across the world, Steven Martins speaks about 'horror stories' coming out of Muslim countries while ignoring 'horror stories' coming out of Western countries such as America (i.e. the horrific rape stats). Let's be clear, there is ill-treatment of women around the world including my country, the UK. It's not limited to Muslim countries or as Steven Martins intimates non-Western countries/ideals.

Steven Martins, through his statements, appears to be a Western supremacist. The interesting thing here is, there are many Eastern Christians out there, does Steven think these people are lacking when it comes to treating women well?

On top of this, what about Western ideals? They all surely are not Biblical. I mean, no serious Christian would claim the allowance of homosexual marriage is Biblical. Or the rampant Western sexualisation of women is Biblical.

So why even champion the West? I assume Canada's similar to Britain where women are sexualized and stripped of their clothing to promote products such as cars, cosmetics and vices like gambling.

I get the impression Steven is new to apologetics but surely he knows appearing as a Western supremacist as well as condescending and intellectually dishonest/lazy would not reflect well on Evangelium & Apologia Ministries? Surely he knows that many Chinese, Arab, and other Christians in the East would feel concerned at his comments?

Here's a video rebuking Steven Martins.

Steven Martins - A Rebuke -  Western Values, Muslim Men and Women


Western Values - Steven Martins of E&AM Rebuked by yahyasnow

Steven, next time you meet a Muslim who treats his wife with reverence. Please ask them if it's because of the teachings of Islam:

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) enjoined kind treatment and honouring of one’s wife, and he described the best of people as those who are best to their wives. He said: “The best of you are those who are the best to their wives, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

RZIM

Rev. Steven Martins is linked to a lady called Cindy Martins. I don't know if they are related or married or simply just colleagues. However, a point of interest here is Cindy Martins holds an apologetics certificate from the Ravi Zacharias International Ministries Academy.

I'm not making any claims here - I don't know of Cindy Martin's work but Steven Martin's work, (from the little I've seen of it) is superficial and unimpressive. It will be prudent just to know that Dr Nabeel Qureshi is part of this organisation (RZIM) and Dr Nabeel has proven himself, time and time again to be superficial and lacking in intellectual honesty, see the Nabeel Qureshi section.

Is the Gospel of John Reliable?

The Sicarii

More about the Paraclete

Prophecies of the Messiah - Reza Aslan

Christians having dreams and converting to Islam


Learn about Islam

Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk