A Reality for Christians on Quran and Bible Preservation

The claim that there are numerous Qurans is a result of a foundational misunderstanding on the Muslim view of the Quran and its preservation. Muslims know what constitutes the Quran as the Readings of the Quran with a Tawatur tradition are all accepted Readings (and thus considered the Quran). Any one of these Readings is sufficient and is considered to be the Quran. The problem here is, many critics don’t understand this point and think Muslims have a load of different Qurans. The take home point here is that the Muslims know for certainty the contents of each Reading of the Quran and these are considered to be the Quran while the Christians have long admitted defeat on this front vis-a-vis the Bible.

Christians actually have variants whilst Muslims have Multiple Readings. Muslims are meant to have multiple Readings of the Quran as per the way the Quran was Revealed. Christians are not meant to have variants. Because they have variants they need Textual Criticism (to speculate which MS reading is the original) and continuous archeology (to continually look for new MSS to help them find new variants or to find evidence which helps them speculate the strength and veracity of various readings already in the NT MS tradition). In addition, the Bible is a text still in flux, in that any verse could be relegated to a the status of a later addition (i.e. forgery) upon a new manuscript find – the historical precedent was set quite spectacularly for this in the 19th Century with Dr Von Tischendorf’s find (or theft :)) of Codex Sinaiticus (relegating the PA and the ending of Mark to the status of later additions). In fact the Christians have given up the keys to the Bible to the academy now.

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Western Scholars Affirm Quran Textual Integrity

 

Shk Haitham Al Haddad The Qu'ran A Concise History and the Compilation of the Quran

 

Why did the Third Caliph Uthman Burn the Copies of Quran?

 

 

 

Numbers 31 and Deuteronomy 21 - Sam Shamoun

Now I understand this anti-Islam apologist, Sam Shamoun, has been denounced as having a double-mind by Pulpit and Pen and James White refuses to recommend him whilst considering him as somebody who "has lost it" BUT his views, if consistently applied, seem to indicate he believes Jesus singled out virgins in Numbers 31 to be raped.


Sam Shamoun: Numbers 31 and Deuteronomy 21

This video is also uploaded here

Numbers 31:

4 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 21:

10 “When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God gives them into your hand and you take them captive, 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, 12 and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pare her nails. 13 And she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and shall remain in your house and lament her father and her mother a full month. After that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife.
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Sam Shamoun and David Wood Cursed by Paul of Tarsus!

African Children and the Harm of White Jesus Imagery - Umar Johnson

Geza Vermes on How Jesus Would Have Reacted to Trinitarian Christians

For Christians Who Call Muslims Rag-Heads...

Are Evengalicals Ignoring Sola Scriptura When Talking About Prophecies in the Bible?

Tovia Singer: Does the New Testament Teach Jesus is God?

Christians having dreams and converting to Islam

 

Sharia Law against terrorism

 

Learn about Islam

Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk
 

A Difficulty On the Christian Idea of Salvation and Forgiveness

Asghar Bukhari writes on his FB about his experience with a Nigerian Christian:

I met a Nigerian Christian today. Well somehow [the] conversation turns to Jews backing israel. He starts telling me the Bible says God supports Jews against their enemies.

So i say, hang about. Didnt they kill your God?

He replies yes but that was Prophesy. God ordained it. And if God hadn't died he wouldn't be saved.

So i say, 'So God told them to kill Him? So you think they did God a favour by killing Him?

He actually said "Yes its Good they killed God"

He had no problem with Jews taking and cleansing the Palestinians because 'Jesus gave it to the Jews

African Christians are some of the most brainwashed people on earth. I mean how can you believe in a religion that nuts.


My thoughts

I have actually thought about this before, I don't believe this Nigerian Christian has drifted away from Biblical Christianity in what he said with what he said about Jews killing God.Christians do effectively believe God wanted the Jews and Romans to kill him - it was a prerequisite for salvation. Thus, in some way without these murderers this “gift of salvation” Christians believe in could not happen.

I've always thought why aren't those who are said to kill Jesus not considered saints as they are responsible for the salvation of billions indirectly according to Christianity? How can they be considered to be in Hell when every Christian is indebted to them indirectly for their salvation?

There is the ethical question here, why is God’s forgiveness and gift of salvation in need of Jewish and Roman murderers? If you truly believe a blood sacrifice is really needed and God really needs to die for sins then why believe God provokes people to murder Him as this means salvation and God’s forgiveness is dependent on murderers in some way, shape or form?

In Islam, God can forgive people without having to be killed by murderers. Which concept of God is better, the Christian one or the Islamic one, be honest?

There are some tough questions here, think about them and ask your pastors.

Note: A Christian friend, Denis Giron, did share this from the Catholic tradition: Catholic history has a tradition that the Roman soldier who stabbed Christ with the spear was a man named Longinus, who later converted to Christianity. He was (and in some pockets still is) revered as a saint. Admittedly, he was revered based on the belief that he converted..


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Tovia Singer: Does the New Testament Teach Jesus is God?

Christians having dreams and converting to Islam

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Learn about Islam

Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk

Are Evengalicals Ignoring Sola Scriptura When Talking About Prophecies in the Bible?

This was a one one-line response by Reverend Samuel Green to one of Tovia Singer’s arguments against the idea Genesis 22 is a foreshadowing or prophecy of the Messiah being crucified.

Rev. Green partially quotes point 3 (he only cites the first sentence) and responds:

This is a straw man argument. They do not have to exegete the Old Testament.

Samuel stripped away the rest of the point which I will reproduce here:

If early Christians believed Genesis 22 was a foreshadowing of Jesus’ crucifixion why did Paul not mention this? This notion did not occur to any writer in the Bible. This notion is a fabrication which comes from the author of a forgery called the Epistle of Barnabas (non canonical book). This book almost made it into the canon. It was also advanced by a Catholic church father, Justin, in the 2nd century. The key point is why is this idea not in the NT? Why didn’t one of the authors not put this into the Bible? Aren’t these protestants who believe in sola scriptura? There seems to be an evolution of thought as time progressed.

The point the rabbi is making here, how can Sola Scriptura Christians conclude Genesis 22 is a foreshadowing or prophecy of the church crucifixion and atonement narrative? It’s a great point! Does Revered Green have any scriptural reference indicating he should believe this? If so, where is it? He does not have such. He’s clearly getting this idea from church tradition, Tovia Singer points out this idea came from a non canonical “forgery” (Epistle of Barnabas) and it was also advanced by the Church Father Justin ( I assume Justin Martyr, a non Trinitarian!). Are these authorities Reverend Green and other Trinitarian Christians should be relying on to get interpretations of the Bible from?

And the point of New Testament authors not mentioning Genesis 22 and using it in their writings is huge. Something Reverend Green should contemplate on. Philips Jenkins captures the zeal the evangelists had for drawing parallels between the Old Testament and the life of Jesus:

All evangelists, for instance, borrow from the Old Testament passages to shape their accounts of the crucifixion. Few stories in the Gospel accounts of Jesus lack an Old Testament parallel or precedent, and the resemblances are all the more apparent when we read the older text in the Greek translation that the evangelists would have known.

The rabbi’s argument is that one would expect at least one of the evangelists to raise Genesis 22 if they truly believed it was a foreshadowing of a crucified Messiah

Think about it in the light of some of the prophecies in Matthew’s Gospel:

...Matthew claims the Messiah was going to be called a Nazarene:

21 So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, 23 and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene. (Matt 2:21-23)

Like other prophecies quoted by Mathew, there is a serious problem with this prophecy: it does not occur anywhere in the Old Testament!

I had been suggested that the use of “prophets” instead of “prophet” in the passage above is Matthew’s way of indicating that he is giving “a paraphrase of the sense of more than one passage rather than a quotation of a specific verse” (Miller, 2003; 115; also Davies & Allison, 1988:275). There is no evidence that this is the case, as 2:23 is the only prophecy that Matthew attributes to the unidentified “prophets”. Of the remaining 12 alleged prophecies that Mathew quotes , 6 are attributed to Prophet Isaiah, 2 to Jeremiah, and 4 to an unidentified “prophet”. It is unclear which “prophets” Matthew meant, but there is no evidence that the use of this plural term indicates that Matthew paraphrased more than one Old Testament passage. [ See: The Mystery of the Messiah, Louay Fatoohi, Loc 2080]

Matthew links Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem to a prophecy:

As they approached Jerusalem and came to Bethphage on the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, 2 saying to them, “Go to the village ahead of you, and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with her colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3 If anyone says anything to you, say that the Lord needs them, and he will send them right away.”

4 This took place to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet:
5 “Say to Daughter Zion,
‘See, your king comes to you,
gentle and riding on a donkey,
and on a colt, the foal of a donkey.’”[a]
6 The disciples went and did as Jesus had instructed them. 7 They brought the donkey and the colt and placed their cloaks on them for Jesus to sit on. 8 A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, while others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road.9 The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted,
“Hosanna[b] to the Son of David!”
“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”[c]
“Hosanna[d] in the highest heaven!”
10 When Jesus entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, “Who is this?”
11 The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.” [Matt 21:1-11]

The Prophet that Matthew mentions in Zechariah:
Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion!
Shout, Daughter Jerusalem!
See, your king comes to you,
righteous and victorious,
lowly and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey. [Zech 9:9]

The Hebrew text for this Old Testament prophecy talks about one animal which is described twice, but its Greek translation uses “and”, meaning two animals instead. Matthew relied on the Greek translation of the Old Testament so he made Jesus ride on two animals. He had to change the earlier part of the story to make Jesus order his two disciples to bring a donkey and a colt. The fact that Jesus could not have ridden on two animals at the same time did not bother Matthew!

Significantly, the versions of this story in the other three Gospels, which are not influenced by the Zechariah prophecy, are different. According to Mark (11:2,7) and Luke (19:30, 35), Jesus wanted and rode a colt. John (12:14), on the other hand, states that Jesus found and rode a donkey. This is yet another example of how Matthew fine-tuned his Gospel to fulfil Old Testament prophecies.
It is also significant to note that, unlike Matthew, none of the other three Evangelists link Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem on a colt to the prophecy in Zechariah, or indeed to any other supposedly Messianic passage.

...Matthew’s fascination with linking events in Jesus’ life to alleged Old Testament prophecies aims o show that Jesus was the fulfilment of those prophecies. This link, the Evangelist thought, would strengthen the believers’ faith and convince the Jews that Jesus is the awaited Messiah and would make them follow him. Matthew was so keen on pursuing his endeavour that he often distorted and misused Old Testament passages. He changed them and took them out of context to make them fit his purpose. He even made them up! [See: The Mystery of the Messiah, Louay Fatoohi, Loc 2114]

Is Genesis 22 a Messianic Prophecy?

Genesis 22 is the Biblical account of Abraham being tested in sacrificing his son. It begins:

After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” 2 He said, “Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”



This video is also uploaded here and here

Some Christians think this account is a prophecy or foreshadowing of Jesus being crucified. A few points in refutation from rabbi Michael Skobac and rabbi Tovia Singer as per the video:

1. The Old Testament teaches nobody can die for somebody else’s sins and innocent person cannot die for the sins of the wicked. Ezekiel 18:13 and 18:20-23

2. Human sacrifice is not biblical. “It (human sacrifice) is forbidden and an odious abomination” – rabbi Tovia Singer.

3. If early Christians believed Genesis 22 was a foreshadowing of Jesus’ crucifixion why did Paul not mention this? This notion did not occur to any writer in the Bible. This notion is a fabrication which comes from the author of a forgery called the Epistle of Barnabas (non canonical book). This book almost made it into the canon. It was also advanced by a Catholic church father, Justin, in the 2nd century. The key point is why is this idea not in the NT? Why didn’t one of the authors not put this into the Bible? Aren’t these protestants who believe in sola scriptura? There seems to be an evolution of thought as time progressed.

4. In Genesis 22 it mentions, in the opening, that God tested Abraham. It announces clearly what this chapter is about, testing Abraham’s faith.

5. Michael Skobac mentions the way Christians view these passages is an approach which works backwards. Nobody reading Gen 22 prior to Christianity would have thought this was a prophecy about the Messiah.

6. It can’t be speaking about Jesus, it’s clear from the passage that this offering is meant to be a burnt offering. Obviously Christians don’t believe Jesus was burnt.

7. There’s no indication that this offering in Gen 22 was for sin.

8. When John (in his Gospel) announces Jesus as the Passover lamb it’s peculiar as this lamb was never brought for atonement of sin in Jewish practice. It was brought for commemoration of an event in Jewish history. The most appropriate analogue would have been the Yom Kippur scapegoat as this was the only animal which bore the sins of all the people (the others were limited) but this scapegoat is not said to be killed in the Bible (it’s sent off into the wilderness).

9. In verse 13 of Gen 22, this story is fulfilled. Abraham sacrifices the lamb. 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram, caught in a thicket by his horns. And Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son.

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Analysing Richard Lucas' Heretical Understanding of Trinity

Synoptic Gospels and the Idea of a Pre-Existent Jesus?

Paula Fredriksen: Paul was NOT a Trinitarian

Wayne Grudem Shoe-horning Partial Trinitarianism into the Old Testament

Edgar G Foster: Trinity Came After the Council of Nicea

Tovia Singer: Does the New Testament Teach Jesus is God?

Why Islam

Notes from Sean Finnegan's interview with Patrick Navas: Is the Trinity Biblical

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Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk

Christian Asks About Child Killing in the Bible - Lizzie Schofield of Pfander Blog and YouTube

Elizabeth Lizzie Schofield asked an odd question about killing children in the Bible...here's a bit of an answer featuring Jay Smith and Shabir Ally. Children are killed in the Bible, this video may shock some folks.





Video also uploaded here and here







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Hashim Corrects Lizzie Schofield of Pfander Films Website


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Textual Criticism of 2 Corinthians By Bart Ehrman

Tovia Singer: Does the New Testament Teach Jesus is God?

Why Islam

Christians having dreams and converting to Islam

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Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk 

Some Christians Used the Bible to Support Apartheid

I first heard the “biblical” case for Apartheid at Moore College, Sydney, in the mid 1960’s from the lips of Broughton Knox, the principal, and Donald Robinson, the vice-principal. Twice while I was in college, Stephen Bradley, the bishop of the breakaway Church of England in South Africa, spoke to us students in support of Apartheid at the invitation of Dr. Knox.

The “biblical” case for Apartheid is as follows:

1. The world is predicated on a number of unchanging creation “orders” (i.e. God-given hierarchies, institutions, structures, and relationships), namely, the family, male leadership, the state, work, and race.

2.The Bible teaches that God has created different races. The story of Babel tells us that the separation of people into different races with different languages is God’s will. In Acts 2:5-11, Rev 5:9; 7:9; 14:6; and other passages, the Bible clearly states that God recognizes that people are divided and identified by race. For the Apartheid theologians, difference between races trumped any similarities.

3. Acts 17:26 was possibly the most important text for Apartheid theologians. “From our one ancestor God made all nations (Greek ethnoi) to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the time of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live.” This text was interpreted to mean that God had divided all the people of the world into different nations or races and allocated a region for each. They saw this as unambiguous endorsement of the policy of separating the different races of South Africa and allotting an area to each. Acts 17:26 was to them what 1 Tim 2:11-14 is for complementarians. This one text settled the matter. Those who accepted what it said were obeying God, and those who did not, were opposing God.

4. The government has the right to create laws and citizens must obey them (Rom 13:1-7).

5. No possible rational or moral objection can be made to the idea of different races each having their own geographical area to develop separately at their own pace. (Note the euphemistic language also common in complementarian theology. You would never guess from these words that Apartheid theology gave precedence to whites.)

This theology was backed by virtually every Reformed theologian in South Africa. The unambiguous and overwhelming support of Apartheid by the Reformed churches justified and legitimated the system. One of their most respected theologians, F. Potgeiter, summed up what was believed:

“It is quite clear that no one can ever be a proponent of integration on the basis of the scriptures. It would be in a direct contradiction of the revealed will of God to plead for a commonality between whites, coloured, and Blacks.”

Similarly, an official statement of the Reformed church stated, “The principle of apartheid between races and peoples, also separate missions and churches, is well supported by scripture.” [Source]

Sharia Law against terrorism

Christians having dreams and converting to Islam

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Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk

Jay Smith's Student Lizzie Schofield Believes Jesus Mistreats Women in Deut 21:10-14

Lizzie Schofield of Pfander Ministries as a Trinitarian believes Jesus allowed Israelites to mistreat captive women by marrying them after killing their fathers, husbands and brothers in battle. Of course she was trying to launch a shallow Jay Smith-esque polemic against Prophet Muhammad's marriage to Safiya (which is discussed here) but nevertheless, if she'c consistent, she will as a Trinitarian believe Jesus allowed something which she believes to be ill-treatment of women: 

Deuteronomy 21 (ESV)

10 “When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God gives them into your hand and you take them captive,11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, 12 and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pare her nails. 13 And she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and shall remain in your house and lament her father and her mother a full month. After that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife.

This video is also uploaded here and here

According to the Trinitarian worldview, Jesus: also

~Allowed the severe beating of female slaves as long as they got up after a couple of days [Exodus 21:20]
~Ordered the killing of children, infants and WOMEN [1 Samuel 15:3]

My advice to Lizzie, look why not just accept the Islamic view of Jesus? Do you really want to believe Jesus ordered the killing of women and children and allowed the severe beating of female slaves as long as they got up within a day or two?

Jay Smith's Pfander Films Asked to Condemn Death Threat to Muslim Apologist

I hope Lizzie Schofield, Sharon Hoy, Sarah Foster, Hatun Tash and Beth Grove will reflect on why Jay Smith's Pfander Ministries and Pfander Films has accrued such caustic and extremist anti-Muslim followers over the years. I know Jay's group has been barred from speaking at certain venues and universities in the past due to being seen as Islamophobic.

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Are Jay Smith and Beth Grove of Pfander Centre Radicalising People to Hate Muslims?

Refuting the Claim Petra was the Qibla Before Mecca

Christian Polemicist Jay Smith and The Christian Apologetics Alliance Debunked Again

Blog: Jonathan McLatchie, yes it is Islamophobic to say what you said...

Brief Chat on Andy Bannister's Approach to Evangelism Re Jonathan McLatichie's Facebook

Solas CPC Rebuked by Muslim

Analysing Richard Lucas' Heretical Understanding of Trinity

Synoptic Gospels and the Idea of a Pre-Existent Jesus?

Paula Fredriksen: Paul was NOT a Trinitarian

Wayne Grudem Shoe-horning Partial Trinitarianism into the Old Testament

Edgar G Foster: Trinity Came After the Council of Nicea

Quran’ic Exegesis of al-Ikhlas as a Corrective of Trinitarian Theo-Christology by Ali Ataie

Tovia Singer: Does the New Testament Teach Jesus is God?

Why Islam

Christians having dreams and converting to Islam

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Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk

Pfander's Beth Grove Asked to Apolgise to Hashim For Anti-Muslim Abuse: Speakers Corner

This "Christian" lady called Beth Grove of Pfander Centre for Apologetics reveals her vile anti-Muslim bigotry when a Muslim speaker, Hashim, at Speakers Corner makes comments on Numbers 31.

15 Moses said to them, “Have you let all the women live? 16 Behold, these, on Balaam's advice, caused the people of Israel to act treacherously against the Lord in the incident of Peor, and so the plague came among the congregation of the Lord. 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.

The video deals with her bigoted anti-Muslim abuse. She took exception to the thought rape was of the virgin girls took place. She then angrily lashes out and claims this idea of rape being involved in Numbers 31 of the Midianite virgins is due to a Muslim mentality: "thinking like a Muslim". A vile anti-Muslim comment which she needs to be publicly called out on, hence this post peacefully rebuking her and calling her to publicly apologise.

However, the more observant ones amongst you may have noticed she made no pronouncement on what is apparent in the text: male children and mothers (non virgin women) were killed.

She does not put this down to a "Muslim" mentality. Why not? Because her bigoted ranting and name-calling cannot detract from a plain reading of the Bible. She believes Moses ordered such. She believes Moses is a Jew, why didn't she put that down to a "Jewish" mentality? It's obvious:

1. She believes Moses is a Prophet and the vengeance against the Midianites was ordered by the Lord (as a Trinitarian this order comes from Jesus in her eyes as he is considered to be the 2nd person of the Trinity doctrine):

1 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Avenge the people of Israel on the Midianites. Afterward you shall be gathered to your people.”

7 They warred against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every male.

25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 “Take the count of the plunder that was taken, both of man and of beast, you and Eleazar the priest and the heads of the fathers' houses of the congregation, 27 and divide the plunder into two parts between the warriors who went out to battle and all the congregation.

2. It would be anti-Semitic to make a similar comment about Jews - something which would receive widespread (and rightful) condemnation from the public and it could get her into trouble with the law of the land. In effect, she's a coward and a bully as she's picking on the minority which is not as well protected when it comes to abuse and discrimination. Sadly, there are a number of Christians who feel they can get away with anti-Muslim comments and sentiment without being called out for bigotry, publicly condemned and reported to the authorities. Muslims have to do more to ensure anti-Muslim abuse is seen as severe and as reprehensible in the eyes of decent people in the UK as anti-Semitism is seen. We can learn from our Jewish friends as they have decades of experience in campaigning against discriminatory attitudes against their people - we should invite Jewish activists to help us with our activism against Islamophobia. Our Jewish friends have a lot of experience and knowledge we can benefit from.

Christian Woman Beth Grove Abused Muslim Man: Numbers 31 DISCUSSED
This video is also uploaded here and here

Just to give you an idea of the number of male youngsters and mothers killed here, think about the number of virgin girls and then do the maths:

Verse 35 tells the reader how many virgins there were: and 32,000 persons in all, women who had not known man by lying with him.

If we say the number of boys killed was roughly the same as the spared virgins then we are talking about 30,000 boys killed. What about the mothers? If we say each mother had 6 children then we are talking about 10,000 mothers. That's roughly 40,000 boys and mothers killed.

For Beth Grove to resort to bigoted ravings at the suggestion the text teaches there was rape one wonders what she does at the thought of the 40,000 boys and mothers being killed....Crickets.

This is typical of your average Christian anti-Muslim bully. Ranting and raving abuse and allegations at Muslims but no consistency and serious-minded thought.

Just to nail my colours, as a Muslim, to the mast. I don't have a belief about this story about Moses. There's no compulsion on me to accept it. I, and the Muslim in the video, do not believe the historical Moses allowed rape of anyone. We don't consider the Old and New Testament reliable.

We must not forget anti-Muslim bigotry attracts other anti-Muslim types. Some of Beth's and Pfander Ministries viewers/followers/supporters/casual observers have been documented in making threatening and racist abuse.

Jay Smith's Pfander Films Asked to Condemn Death Threat to Muslim Apologist

Lizzie Schofield, Sharon Hoy, Sarah Foster, Hatun Tash and Beth Grove will reflect on why Jay Smith's Pfander Ministries and Pfander Films has accrued such caustic and extremist anti-Muslim followers over the years. I know Jay's group has been barred from speaking at certain venues and universities in the past due to being seen as Islamophobic.

The quotes used in the video to show there are other folks out there who think the text in Numbers 31 implies rape, at least one of these other people is a CHRISTIAN.

Emeritus Professor of Statistics at Auckland University, New Zealand and a Fellow of the Royal Society of New Zealand Arthur F. Seber writes:

“God seems to sanction rape. In Numbers 31:17-18 we read that Moses encouraged his men to kill all the boy captives and female captives who are not virgins but keep virgins alive for themselves. God did not rebuke him but urged him to distribute the spoils (verses 25 40).” [1]

In a massive commentary on the Bible, The theologian Claudia Rakel writes:

“The connection between war and the rape of the women of the conquered people is recorded in biblical texts such as Numbers 31, Genesis 34, and Judges 5:30.” [2]

Eminent scholar Professor Carolyn J. Sharp, who is Acting Associate Dean of Academic Affairs & Professor of Hebrew at the Divinity School of Yale University identifies the text in Numbers as an example of a prescription for rape:

“The practice of sexual violation of enemy women for the purpose of long-term destabilization of the enemy is a well-known and amply documented strategy of male warriors in many cultures, from ancient times to today. Scripture testifies to this abhorrent practice in holy-war texts such as Numbers 31:18, in which Moses commands the execution of nonvirgin Midianite women but allows his army to “keep alive for” themselves Midianite virgin girls, and Deuteronomy 20:14, which instructs that enemy women may be taken as booty.”

Professor of Social Ethics and Latinx Studies at Iliff School of Theology in Colorado, Dr. Miguel A. De La Torre, who is also an ordained Southern Baptist minister, readily recognises the plain meaning of Numbers 31:18: “The abolitionists were hard pressed to find any biblical passage that outright condemned the institution of slavery. Even the rape of female slaves found biblical justification and was considered to be ordained by God. Specifically, Numbers 31:18 instructs conquerors as follows: “You shall keep alive all young females who have not had sex with a male for yourselves.” This passage is part of Moses’ instructions for treatment of the conquered people of Midian, who were now to be Israel’s slaves.” [1]
Quotes sourced from Ibn Anwar's article


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Are Jay Smith and Beth Grove of Pfander Centre Radicalising People to Hate Muslims?

Refuting the Claim Petra was the Qibla Before Mecca

Christian Polemicist Jay Smith and The Christian Apologetics Alliance Debunked Again

Blog: Jonathan McLatchie, yes it is Islamophobic to say what you said...

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Paula Fredriksen: Paul was NOT a Trinitarian

Wayne Grudem Shoe-horning Partial Trinitarianism into the Old Testament

Edgar G Foster: Trinity Came After the Council of Nicea

Quran’ic Exegesis of al-Ikhlas as a Corrective of Trinitarian Theo-Christology by Ali Ataie

Tovia Singer: Does the New Testament Teach Jesus is God?

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Jesus Allowed Killing Children Who Cursed Parents - Christian Pastor

Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. [Exodus 21:17]

According to Steven Anderson, Jesus is backing up the commandment in Exodus 21 in Matthew 15:

Matthew 15:4 For God said: 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'

Pastor Steven Anderson teaches this refers to people who curse their parents (not insult or are disobedient, i.e. those children who wish their parents will die or go to hell) and those who hit their parents

I will also add Mark 7 in as it is the same as Matthew 15:

Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your Father and your mother,' and, 'Whoever curses his father or mother must be put to death.'

Steven Anderson, links Matthew 15:4 and Exodus 21:17 with 2 Kings 2:

23From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys

This video is also uploaded here

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Hamza Myatt and Lizzie Schofield on Violence in Bible - Unbelievable and Pfander Films Take Note

Hamza Myatt of EF Dawah helps to teach a Westernised Christian from Jay Smith's Pfander Centre about violence in the Bible.


Video also uploaded here

Secularised Christians like those at Pfander Films (Jay Smith, Beth Grove, Lizzie Schofield, Hatun Tash and Sarah Foster) are thought to believe in the 4th century doctrine of the Trinity but seemingly teach Jesus does not use violence and force but upon closer examination of their texts and their theology it's quite obvious the secularised Christians at Pfander are not presenting views which are consistent with Trinitarian exegesis of the Bible.

Before we have a look at some texts in the New Testament let's have a look at some texts in the Old testament. Trinitarian Christians believe Jesus (as the second person of their triune Godhead doctrine) ordered the killing and destruction of whole towns if some people amongst them called to the worship of other gods:

12“When you begin living in the towns the LORD your God is giving you, you may hear 13that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. 14In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, 15you must attack that town and completely destroyb all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. 16Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the open square and burn it. Burn the entire town as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. 17Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a large nation, just as he swore to your ancestors. [Deut 13]

Trinitarians also believe Jesus ordered the killing of apostates from one's own family if they began preaching the worship of other gods: 

6 “If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. [Deut 13]

Trinitarians also believe Jesus ordered women and children to be killed:

2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” [1 Samuel 15]

Jesus ordered the killing of Midianite men, women and boys through Moses according to Trinitarian thought:

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burnedall the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. [Numbers 31]

Some Trinitarians believe the Angel of the Lord in the OldTestament is a christophany, thus they believe the angel was Jesus. Do these Trinitarians believe Jesus put to death 185,000 Assyrians?

That night the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning--there were all the dead bodies! [2 Kings 19:35]

I think that's enough to demonstrate the Westernised Trinitarian really isn't preaching actual Trinitarian beliefs. But what of the New Testament, does Jesus use force according to those texts?

13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. [Revelation 19]

Trinitarian Pastor Steven Anderson explains what is meant by treading on the winepress. He goes back to chapter 14:

19So the angel swung his sickle over the earth and loaded the grapes into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20The grapes were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress in a stream about 180 milesd long and as high as a horse’s bridle.

The pastor teaches Jesus is responsible for a judgement that brings forth a river of blood that stretches for about 200 miles and is as deep as a horse's bridle. The pastor's fellow Trinitarian in Phoenix, James White, openly admits Trinitarians believe freedom of religion will be ended when Jesus returns.

I'd be very interested in knowing if the people at the Pfander Centre for Apologetics are willing to discuss these issues and openly admit they believe Jesus uses violence according to the Trinitarian worldview. I suspect they will just remain silent on this as it affects the donations they get from other secularised Christians and I guess they feel it will impact their efforts to convert people to worship Jesus (a human being!) and believe in the Bible and the Trinity doctrine.

Look, if you're a Trinitarian please think about these points. At the end of the day it's important for you to know that Western secularism is not Christianity. Look into this, Islam and the Trinity doctrine for yourselves. Think about it. Pray about it

As for the Christians at Pfander Centre for Apologetics I'd really ask you to do the same. I'd especially ask Lizzie Schofield, Sarah Foster and Hatun Tash (the ones who may not have financial ties to that evangelical organisation) to just look around. You're all living in Britain, how many Christians do you really see around you. Be honest with yourselves. I'm hard pushed to find a Bible-believing Christian. Christianity is declining here and it's giving way to secularism (the Nones, those affiliated to no religion). Not to Islam. So this isn't an Islam vs Christianity thing. I've already written about how Jay Smith and other Christian polemicists against Islam are contributing to the apostasy of Christians. They are setting them up to stumble out of the Abrahamic tradition via the secular premises they build their arguments on. Please do read it and just ask yourself if you're contributing to this too. Don't you not think you will be responsible before God if you lead somebody to stumble into Atheism?

For any serious-minded Christians who have felt this post to be somewhat eye-opening please don't hesitate to contact me via email. Thanks.

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An Interesting Quote on the Gospel of Mark

Quote sourced from Ijaz Ahmed

"One final note is due concerning the Gospel of Mark. Ironically, the earliest gospel has not been preserved in very many early manuscripts. And to add to the irony (and mystery), Mark is traditionally said to have taken his gospel with him to Egypt (Eusebius, Hist. eccl. 2.16)—and yet there are hardly any early extant copies of Mark among the many discoveries of manuscripts in Egypt. The earliest copy of Mark is preserved in 𝔓45, but it is not a very faithful copy.

In the book of Mark especially, the scribe of 𝔓45 exerted many personal liberties in making a text that replicated more the thought of his exemplar than the actual words. As is well known, 𝔓45 has marked affinities with the fifth-century manuscript, W. The more ''normal" text of Mark is preserved in one early fourth-century manuscript, 𝔓88, and two later fourth-century manuscripts, א and B. Until there are more discoveries of early copies of Mark, it is difficult to reconstruct the early history of the text." - New Testament Text and Translation Commentary, Philip W. Comfort, xviii.

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More on the Westernised Christians at Pfander Ministries, Lizzie Schofield and Jay Smith

Westernised Christians like those at Jay Smith's Pfander Centre for Apologetics seem to have modern interpretations of the Bible concerning women and women's dress sense.



Also uploaded here

Note the Biblical teachings of Matthew 18:7 and Luke 17:1. Matthew 18:7 states: “Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!” By exposing our nakedness to those of the opposite sex to whom we are not married and who are not a God-approved exception, we are tempting them to lust after us with their eyes, thoughts and imaginations. Even if they resist lust, we are still tempting them to sin.

Read the broad Biblical command of 1 Timothy 6:22: “Do not…share in other people’s sins; keep yourself pure.” If a woman or man exposes his/her nakedness and this leads to a person to whom they are not married, to lust after him/her, this is the sin of sharing in other people’s sins. [InternetBibleCollege.Net]

Numbers 31:18

Note: As Muslims we do not believe Moses commanded rape. This is an article by Ibn Anwar featuring quotes showing some people do view Numbers 31 suggesting the Midianite females were raped.

Biblical Moses commanded rape in Numbers 31:18 by Ibn Anwar, BHsc (Hons), MCollT
My brother in faith and Muslim apologist extraordinaire, Yahya Snow, asked me several minutes ago if I had written anything on the rape of women as described and prescribed in Numbers 31 and whether or not Biblical scholars have commented on it. What follows is my response that I feel should be shared here.

The text in question is Numbers 31:18:

"but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." (NIV)

The story goes that the biblical Moses was commanded by God to annihilate the Midian nation by killing off all of its male adults along with male babies and children and also non-virgin girls and women, as specifically mentioned in verse 17. However, a small category of the nation was to be spared: female babies, girls and women that were virgins. What do the scholarly material inform us about this disturbing biblical account?

Emeritus Professor of Statistics at Auckland University, New Zealand and a Fellow of the Royal Society of New Zealand Arthur F. Seber writes:

"God seems to sanction rape. In Numbers 31:17-18 we read that Moses encouraged his men to kill all the boy captives and female captives who are not virgins but keep virgins alive for themselves. God did not rebuke him but urged him to distribute the spoils (verses 25 40)." [1]

In a massive commentary on the Bible, The theologian Claudia Rakel writes:

"The connection between war and the rape of the women of the conquered people is recorded in biblical texts such as Numbers 31, Genesis 34, and Judges 5:30." [2]

Academically trained in Criminal Justice and member of the The American Investigative Society of Cold Cases (AISOCC), Arthur S. Chancellor writes:

"In what we generally think of as ancient history, the rape of women of a conquered city by the victorious army was considered a part of the "spoils of war... Examples can be found within the Bible: Numbers 31:1-18 described how Moses ordered the slaughter of all Midianite males after a battle but the 32, 000 female virgins were spared to become slaves or given to soldiers as captives of war." [3]

Peter J. DiDomenica of Boston University and Chief of Boston University Police Thomas G. Robbins write:

"While our cultural rules prohibit rape and in the vast majority of places during the vast majority of times it is not tolerated, there are certain situational variables such as war or individual personal variables such as psychopathy that allow this genetic tendency to flourish. Since the beginnings of recorded history, rape has accompanied warfare... In a biblical account of war found in the Old Testament, Numbers 31, Moses sends 12, 000 Israelites to war against the Midianites. "And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males." Of the women and children taken captive, all were ordered killed by Moses except the virgins." [4]

Eminent scholar Professor Carolyn J. Sharp, who is Acting Associate Dean of Academic Affairs & Professor of Hebrew at the Divinity School of Yale University identifies the text in Numbers as an example of a prescription for rape:

"The practice of sexual violation of enemy women for the purpose of long-term destabilization of the enemy is a well-known and amply documented strategy of male warriors in many cultures, from ancient times to today. Scripture testifies to this abhorrent practice in holy-war texts such as Numbers 31:18, in which Moses commands the execution of nonvirgin Midianite women but allows his army to "keep alive for" themselves Midianite virgin girls, and Deuteronomy 20"14, which instructs that enemy women may be taken as booty." [5]

Notes:

[1] Seber, A. F. (2015). Can We Believe it?: Evidence for Christianity. Eugene, Oregon: Wipf and Stock Publishers. p. 175

[2] Rakel, C. (2012). Judith: About a Beauty Who Is Not What She Pretends to Be, (Lisa E. Dahill, Everett R, Kalin, Nancy Lukens et. al., trans.). In Luise Schottroff and Marie-Theres Wacker (eds), Feminist Biblical Interpretation: A Compendium of Critical Commentary on the Books of the Bible and Related Literature. Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. p. 521

[3] Chancellor, A. S. (2013). Investigating Sexual Assault Cases. Burlington, Massachusetts: Jones & Bartlett Learning. p. 4

[4] DiDomenica, P. J. & Robbins, T. G. (2013). Journey from Genesis to Genocide: Hate, Empathy, and the Plight of Humanity. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: Dorrance Publishing Co. p. 50

[5] Sharp, C. J. (2010). Wrestling the Word: The Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Believers. Louisville, Kentucky: Westminster John Knox Press. p. 131

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Michael Heiser - The Historical Context of Numbers 31 and the Midianite Women

Does Jesus use Violence and Force According to Trinitarian Christianity?

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Why Islam

Christians having dreams and converting to Islam

Sharia Law against terrorism

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Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk